Upzoned

Americans have been told that buying a home is one of the safest ways to secure their future. But when retirement depends on home values continuing to climb, affordability begins to look like a threat. Carlee Alm-LaBar is joined by Daniel Herriges, co-author of Escaping the Housing Trap, and Alli Thurmond-Quinlan, executive director of the Incremental Development Alliance. Together, they push beyond the idea that housing is simply an investment problem. Limited supply, narrow housing choices, transportation, retirement, and municipal finance are all tied into the same system, leaving people with fewer ways to find security at every stage of life.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

"The Housing Crisis Is Also a Retirement Crisis" by Kyla Scanlon, Nytimes.com (July 2026)

Downzone:

From Strength to Strength, by Arthur C. Brooks (Site)

Construction Physics (Substack)

World Cup 2026 (Site)

Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn)

Daniel Herriges (LinkedIn)

Alli Thurmond-Quinlan (LinkedIn)

Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

 

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

In 2009, Chicago traded 75 years of parking meter revenue for a $1.2 billion payment that helped fill an immediate budget hole. Norm Van Eeden Petersman is joined by Tony Jordan, executive director of the Parking Reform Network, and Edward Erfurt, chief technical advisor at Strong Towns, to look at what the city actually gave up and why its recent $3.3 billion bid never made it to the finish line. The lease still shapes decisions about removing parking for bus lanes, bike lanes and wider sidewalks, while the revenue keeps flowing to a private operator instead of back into the places generating it. That leaves Chicago with a much harder question than whether the original deal was bad: what would it take to manage the curb again, regain flexibility and use that money to improve the streets themselves?

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

"Mayor’s $3 Billion Parking Meter Offer Was $800 Million More Than The Next Highest Bid, Investor Says" by Mick Dumke, Blockclubchicago.org (June 2026)

Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn)

Tony Jordan (Site)

Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn)

Articles mentioned and Downzone:

'Why ‘SimCity’ has no parking lots, and other insights from the lead designer' (Article)

Simulating the Future: a webinar with Stone Librande (Video)

A Wailing Of A Town: An Oral History of Early San Pedro Punk And More 1977-1985 by Craig Ibarra (Book) 

Recoding America: Why Government Is Failing in the Digital Age and How We Can Do Better by Jennifer Pahlka (Book)

Sam Walton: Made In America, by Sam Walton and John Huey (Book)

Microlandia (Site)

Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

 

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

Five years after wildfire destroyed most of Lytton, British Columbia, rebuilding remains slow despite more than $140 million in committed public funding. Norm Van Eeden Petersman talks with Michel Durand-Wood, author of You’ll Pay for This, and Graham Watt, who manages strategic initiatives and flood recovery for Grand Forks, British Columbia. They look at what happens when a small town is pushed to rebuild everything at once, while also dealing with hazardous conditions, limited local capacity, consulting costs, modern codes, and the long-term obligation to maintain whatever comes next. The money creates a promise of recovery, but Lytton shows how hard it is to turn that promise back into a town.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

"Inside Lytton’s contentious recovery, where concerns smoulder 5 years after wildfire" by Brenna Owen, Halifax.citynews.ca (June 2026)

Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn)

Michel Durand-Wood (Site)

Graham Watt (LinkedIn)

Downzone:

The Baby-Sitters Club 

Human Nature by Kate Marvel (Site)

The Blackthorn Key, by Kevin Sands (Site)

Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

 

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

Chuck Marohn has long been critical of housing research that treats affordability as a simple supply problem. This week, he brings Andrew Burleson, chair of the Strong Towns board, and Jeff Fong, a board member at YIMBY Action, a new paper on Australia’s housing crisis that starts somewhere else: with the way price increases move between detached houses and apartments, and from one city to another. The paper argues that detached homes help lead the market, while the discussion keeps returning to a harder question: how much of the crisis is about housing supply, and how much is about the financial incentives built into the market?

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

"The role of price spillovers in the Australian housing crisis: A two-market analysis" by Shu-Hen Chiang, Chyi Lin Lee, and Chi Man Eddie Hiu, Sciencedirect.com (June 2026)

Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn)

Andrew Burleson (LinkedIn), Free Range City (Substack)

Jeff Fong (LinkedIn), Urban Proxima (Substack)

Articles Mentioned and Downzone:

Fifa (Site)

'We Can Never Go Back' (Substack)

Apple in China: The Capture of the World's Greatest Company, by Patrick McGee (Goodreads)

Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

 

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

When Charlotte and its regional planning body withdrew support for a $4.3 billion widening of Interstate 77, North Carolina lawmakers responded by threatening a $60 million penalty and a funding cutoff. Host Carlee Alm-LaBar is joined by Patrick Kennedy, whose Atlas of Inner-City Highway Impacts documents highway damage across 142 cities, and John Reuter, the newly named Executive Director of Strong Towns, to break down the sunk cost trap, the real math behind highway "assets," and why the local officials who pushed back may have saved far more than they spent.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

"N.C. Lawmakers May Claw Back $60M for Cancelled I-77 Project" by Ray Gronberg, Businessnc.com (June 2026)

Downzone:

Atlas of Inner-City Highway Impacts (PDF)

Mission Accomplished (Site)

Dealing with Dragons (Site)

Fifa (Site)

Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn)

Patrick Kennedy (LinkedIn)

John Reuter (LinkedIn)

Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

 

This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.