Launched by RevenueCat

On the podcast: Andy Allen shares how he went from designing the never-shipped Microsoft Courier tablet and co-founding the Apple Design Award-winning drawing app Paper to starting !Boring Software (Not Boring Software) — a deliberately tiny, 2-person studio built around one rule: never make boring software again. He talks about why staying small on purpose protects you from getting trapped in a business you hate, how a "patron plan" with no extra features outsold expectations, why sound design and haptics are the most underused tools in app development, and how 3 years of false starts led to Not Boring Camera — an app that strips out all of Apple's photo processing so you can take expressive photos instead of technically perfect ones.
Top Takeaways:
🎨 Design can be the entire value proposition — not just a nice-to-have 
People pay premiums for notebooks, furniture, and cars based on aesthetics, yet the software industry still assumes you need feature differentiation to charge money.

🔒 The biggest risk isn't failure — it's getting trapped in a business you don't want to run Structure your company, your incentives, and your product roadmap around the work you actually want to do, not the work that seems most scalable.

🎭 Doing the uncool thing often has the most staying power 
The projects that resonate most tend to be the ones nobody else wanted to do — starting an app business when everyone else was chasing SaaS turned out to be the right move.

💰 Patronage works when your mission resonates 
If people see you fighting a battle they believe in, they'll pay significantly more than the value of the features they unlock — they're funding the effort, not buying a product.

🔊 Sound design is the most underused tool in app development 
One sound file repeated is grating; a dozen slightly different versions of the same click — borrowed from game audio — makes software feel alive without adding real complexity.

📷 Default camera apps ensure you never take a bad photo — but you can never take a great one
Stripping out computational processing and putting expressive tools into the moment of capture makes people want to go outside and take photos of random things again.

🧱 Ship complete products and move on 
Committing to "this is the app we made" — no V3 feature bloat, no chatbot in the corner — forces you onto the more creatively interesting path of making something new every year.

About Andy Allen:
🚀 Founder and designer behind !Boring Software (Not Boring Software), an app studio creating expressive, design-led utility apps including Not Boring Weather, Calculator, Timer, Habits, Vibes, and Camera.
👋 LinkedIn
🌐 Learn more about Not Boring Software

Follow us on X: 
Charlie Chapman - @_chuckyc
RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
Launched - @LaunchedFM 

Episode Highlights:
[00:00] The fear of building the wrong business
[00:45] WWDC, Apple Design Awards, and Not Boring Camera merch
[04:27] Growing up in a remote Alaskan fishing village
[06:09] Studying visual communication design
[08:51] Early interaction design work at Ziba
[13:37] Moving to Microsoft and working on Courier
[17:48] Designing tools for creativity instead of consumption
[22:03] Building Paper for iPad
[28:15] Raising VC and selling FiftyThree
[30:05] The origin of Not Boring Software
[35:28] Building a small business on purpose
[37:39] Testing whether design can be enough
[45:51] Subscriptions, skins, and patronage
[50:28] Why customers support the mission
[53:03] Avoiding a business you do not want to run
[55:47] Sound design, haptics, and game-inspired software
[01:03:15] Performance trade-offs with 3D app design
[01:06:06] Building Not Boring Camera
[01:12:13] Super RAW, LUTs, and expressive photography
[01:17:11] Why the moment of creation matters
[01:20:33] Andy’s creative inspirations

On the podcast: Eric Duffett shares how he built Shot Pattern — a golf GPS app that brings "moneyball" thinking to the course — as a side project while teaching high school full-time. He talks about his first failed app, why automating an existing community workflow created instant product-market fit, turning down a 75K acquisition offer, cracking Meta ads with a scrappy zero-budget screen recording, and growing to one million dollars in total sales without ever leaving the classroom.

Top Takeaways:

⛳ Find people already doing it the hard way
If a community is solving a problem with spreadsheets, Google Maps, or shared workarounds, you don't need to convince them they have a problem — you just need to make the solution easier.
🚫 Don't rebuild your entire app for one person's feedback
Overweighting the first piece of feedback you get, especially when it requires a massive pivot like adding a new platform, is one of the most common traps for first-time developers.
📉 Intellectually knowing and emotionally knowing are different things
You can predict a seasonal downturn or a slow period, but the anxiety of watching revenue drop to zero still hits differently when you're living through it.
🎬 Market before you build
The difference between a hobby that nobody finds and a business that grows from day one can be as simple as sharing screenshots and talking about what you're making while you're still making it.
💸 Your LTV has to work before you spend a dollar on ads
Paid acquisition only becomes a money printer when your conversion and retention numbers are already strong from organic users — otherwise you're just paying to lose money faster.
🎥 The scrappy creative wins
A raw, unpolished screen recording made by the founder can outperform expensive influencer content because it speaks directly to the audience in their own language.
🏋️ Grit without product-market fit is just suffering
Resilience is a necessary skill, but grinding on something nobody wants for years doesn't make you a better entrepreneur — it just delays the moment you find the thing that actually works.

About Eric Duffet:
🚀 Indie Developer and creator of Shot Pattern, a specialized golf GPS and course management app designed to help golfers lower their scores by visualizing their personal "shot cone" directly over satellite maps of the golf course
👋 LinkedIn
🌐 Learn more about Shot Pattern

Episode Highlights:
[00:00] Introduction to Shot Pattern: “Moneyball for golf”
[02:14] Eric’s background: teaching, finance, and early app development
[03:40] Golf experience and coaching background
[05:58] First app: meditation for athletes and lessons learned
[10:47] Rookie mistakes: Android pivot and early marketing missteps
[13:08] Design insights from working with UI/UX students
[17:00] Understanding product-market fit through a simple school app
[20:07] Starting Shot Pattern as a personal side project
[21:46] Early app features: measuring arcs and dispersion on Apple Maps
[25:17] Early marketing and organic growth via Twitter
[29:35] Investing in golf course data to enhance the app
[33:04] Prototype simulations and early community feedback
[35:10] Declining $75K acquisition offer to continue independently
[38:14] Facing seasonal slowdowns and sustaining motivation
[42:04] Running Meta ads and achieving high LTV
[46:50] Effective ad creative targeting the right golfers
[49:58] Balancing development, business, and family
[56:32] Hiring a contractor for marketing and operational support
[01:00:23] Future plans: delivering more value through analytics and AI reports
[01:02:31] Competition and validation in the golf app space

On the podcast: Austin Blake shares his journey from film student and Apple superfan to the creator of Stuff, a task management app built for people who care deeply about design and productivity. He explains the challenge of competing in crowded markets, building software that “feels right,” and what it’s like getting featured by Apple.

Top Takeaways:

🛠️ Out-persist the crowded market
You do not need to reinvent the wheel to succeed; you can stand out in a saturated space simply by committing to continuous development and polishing the user experience over several years.
🤖 Let AI agents review each other
When learning a new platform, you can accelerate development by using AI to generate code and setting up multiple AI agents to review and refine each other's plans before you inspect the final code.
⏱️ Shorten your trial to find the magic number
A month-long free trial is often too much time for users to feel the urgency to upgrade; reducing your trial to seven days can significantly increase your trial-to-paid conversion rate.
📦 Rethink native paradigms from scratch
Porting an app to a new platform requires more than stretching the UI; you must implement the platform-specific interactions, like keyboard navigation and native undo states, that users subconsciously expect.
⏳ Always triple your launch buffer for new platforms
App Store review guidelines are highly inconsistent across platforms; even if your app's core features are already approved on mobile, expect unexpected rejections and budget at least three weeks for a desktop launch.

About Austin Blake:

🚀 Indie Developer and creator of Stuff, a task management app focused on combining simplicity, beauty, and powerful productivity workflows. Former Apple contractor and incoming Developer Advocate at RevenueCat.
👋 LinkedIn
🌐 Learn more about Stuff

Follow us on X: 
Charlie Chapman - @_chuckyc
RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
Launched - @LaunchedFM 

Episode Highlights:
[00:00] Why Austin built “another” to-do list app
[00:42] Meeting at WWDC and joining RevenueCat
[03:22] From film school to advertising to coding
[04:55] Growing up as an Apple superfan
[07:11] Learning to code after getting ignored by Evernote
[08:35] Building MightyNote and Achievements
[11:58] Early lessons about onboarding and subscriptions
[14:03] Quitting his job to go all-in on indie development
[16:24] Working at Apple while building Stuff on the side
[18:55] Why Austin chose task management as his focus
[20:40] Competing in crowded app categories
[22:22] The magic and inspiration behind Wunderlist
[25:39] Designing apps that “feel right”
[26:47] Building task dependencies into Stuff
[28:09] Launching Stuff through pre-orders and community feedback
[31:33] The pros and cons of large TestFlight betas
[38:14] Launching the Mac version of Stuff
[40:04] Getting featured by Apple for AI-powered features
[42:12] Pricing strategy, subscriptions, and free trials
[45:01] Building trust through dev logs and transparency
[50:14] Designing for macOS vs iPhone and iPad
[56:22] The realities of App Store review for Mac apps
[59:12] Austin’s favorite creators, apps, and inspirations

On the podcast: Daniel Kennett shares his journey from indie developer to creating Cascable Studio. He tells the story of the challenges of building his app that supports over 250 cameras, the process of reverse-engineering hardware, and why his background in indie development shaped his approach to the business.

Top Takeaways:

🏗️ The framework doesn't matter — the app does
Users don't care whether you used SwiftUI or RealBasic; they care whether the app is polished and fits the platform.

💸 If they can afford a $4,000 camera, charge accordingly 
Pricing for a professional audience means resisting the race to the bottom; your users' willingness to pay reflects the value of the tools they already own.

📈 Slow, steady growth is still growth 
A consistently rising line over five years, even without a single breakout moment, can eventually replace a full salary — if you don't panic and quit.
🔄 Multiple revenue streams are a survival strategy, not a luxury
An SDK licensing business and a webcam app built on existing infrastructure turned a COVID revenue crash into a three-week turnaround.
🧱 Architecture decisions you make early can pay off years later
Pulling camera connection logic into a standalone framework was an accidental decision that later became both a licensing product and the foundation for a pivot app.
💍 The people closest to you live through your failures too
Having a partner who saw the worst of it and still supported the next attempt — with sensible goals and financial guardrails — made the difference between a reckless gamble and a calculated bet.
🎯 Subscription-only can alienate a professional audience
When Adobe went subscription-only, it angered the entire photography industry overnight; offering both subscription and one-time purchase options lets customers choose their relationship with your app.

About Daniel Kennett:
🚀Senior macOS and iOS developer, currently running an independent software company, Cascable AB, that ships professional photography tools like Cascable Studio, a professional camera control app that empowers photographers with advanced features for non-iPhone cameras.
👋 LinkedIn
🌐 Learn more about Cascable

🌐 Daniel’s Website
Follow us on X: 
Charlie Chapman - @_chuckyc
RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
Launched - @LaunchedFM 

Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Introduction to Daniel Kennett and Cascable Studio
[1:00] Daniel’s background: From a self-taught coder to indie developer
[5:00] The story behind Cascable Studio
[8:30] The early days of indie development: Challenges and successes
[12:00] Reverse engineering and building a tool for photographers
[15:30] How adding camera support transformed the app's growth
[18:00] Learning from failures and the importance of not giving up
[20:30] Why a niche market can lead to success: Focusing on non-iPhone cameras
[24:00] Managing financial challenges and building a sustainable indie business
[27:00] The role of simplicity in app design and user experience
[30:00] Expanding into new markets: Licensing SDKs for other developers
[32:30] Why Daniel prefers to build with minimal outside funding
[35:00] Lessons from working with hardware manufacturers and building partnerships
[37:30] What's next for Cascable Studio and future goals for indie development
 [40:00] Daniel’s advice for future indie developers: Focus, perseverance, and learning

On the podcast: Bria Sullivan shares her journey as an indie developer to creating Focus Friend, a focus timer app that quickly gained traction with the help of Hank Green. She discusses the foundation of Focus Friend, the challenges of balancing her business and personal life, and the wonderful experience working with Hank Green.
Top Takeaways:
📱 Success isn't just about coding
The most successful indie developers rely more on product instinct and marketing intuition than raw engineering talent.

🧪 Validate with your target audience early
Real-time feedback loops, like live-streaming development choices to followers, can pinpoint exactly what users want before you build the wrong thing.

📈 There's a formula for the Top 100 
Getting to $50k-$120k a year in indie app revenue relies more on systematic execution of known frameworks than pure luck.

🎭 Working with creators requires boundary setting
Influencers have immense reach but often suggest features that don't make good standalone products; you have to guide the product vision.

🕵️ Privacy is a feature, not just compliance
When your app is tied to a beloved public figure, users scrutinize data collection heavily; sometimes you have to sacrifice ad tracking to protect the brand's trust.

About Bria Sullivan:
🚀 Indie Developer and Creator of Focus Friend, a gamified focus timer app designed to help users stay focused with a cute “bean” character. Also the creator of Boba Story, a game where players run a boba shop.
👋 LinkedIn

🌐 Learn more about Focus Friend

🌐 Learn more about Boba Story
Follow us on X: 
Charlie Chapman - @_chuckyc
RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
Launched - @LaunchedFM 

Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Introduction to Bria Sullivan and Focus Friend
[1:00] Bria’s background: From self-taught coder to indie developer
[5:30] The story behind Focus Friend: Creating a productivity app for Hank Green’s audience
[10:00] Balancing indie app development with personal life challenges
[12:30] Marketing through TikTok: Building an audience before launch
[15:00] The struggles and success of Boba Story
[17:30] The evolution of Focus Friend: Iterating and listening to feedback
[20:00] Collaborating with influencers: How Bria worked with Hank Green
[22:30] The role of design and simplicity in a successful app
[26:00] Monetization decisions: Choosing a subscription model without being intrusive
[29:30] Overcoming the obstacles of indie development
[32:00] Reflections on growing as an indie developer and working with influencers
[34:00] Bria’s approach to creating apps that resonate with users
[37:00] What’s next for Bria Sullivan and her apps
[40:00] Advice for future indie developers and creators