A Little Bit Culty

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

In this episode, we welcome back Alice Hines, co-host of the Mind Games podcast, and dig into her reporting on neuro-linguistic programming (NLP), NXIVM, and the slippery gremlin bridge between self-help, persuasion, and manipulation. Alice explains how Mind Games traced the overlap between Twin Flames, NLP, and NXIVM. She spoke about interviewing ex-NXIVM president Nancy Salzman—and Sarah appears in episode 8 on NXIVM too.

Our conversation gets into how NLP was packaged as a legit-looking psychology tool before drifting into guru territory, sales culture, and cult-adjacent use cases. Alice breaks down the techniques, the industry hype, and the origins of NLP through its two founders, Richard Bandler and John Grinder. We got a bit fired up about how NXIVM borrowed, recycled, and repurposed the same influence tactics. And we talk about Nancy Salzman’s relationship to NLP, the role of “appeal to authority,” and how these tools can be helpful in one context and deeply abusive in another.

Be sure to subscribe to the Mind Games podcast and follow Alice Hines on her website alicehines.com, Instagram, X, or TikTok.

Trigger warning: This episode contains frank discussion of psychological and emotional abuse, sexual coercion, and blackmail/collateral.

Also…let it be known that:
The views and opinions expressed on A Little Bit Culty do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business, individual, anyone or anything. Nobody’s mad at you, just don’t be a culty fuckwad.

Buy the A Little Bit Culty book on Amazon or order a signed copy.
Check out our amazing sponsors
Join A Little Bit Culty on Patreon
Get poppin’ fresh ALBC Swag
Support the pod and smash this link
Check out our cult awareness and recovery resources
Watch Sarah's TED Talk and buy her memoir, Scarred

CREDITS:
Executive Producers: Sarah Edmondson & Anthony Ames
Production Partner: Citizens of Sound
Co-Creator: Jess Tardy
Audio production: Will Retherford
Production Coordinator: Lesli Dinsmore
Writer: Sandra Nomoto
Social media team: Eric Skwarzynski and Brooke Keane
Theme Song: “Cultivated” by Jon Bryant co-written with Nygel Asselin

SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS:
When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com/culty.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In Part 2 with Harrison Hill, we go deeper into his book, The Oracle’s Daughter, and the wonderfully unhinged rise of the Aggressive Christianity Missions Training Corps (ACMTC), which started out as Free Love Ministries and then took a hard left into full-blown extremity. Harrison talks about the limited public record, the giant legal paper trail, and the kind of reporting that makes you wonder how anyone ever untangles a cult story without losing their mind.

A big focus here is Sarah Green, the oldest child of Jim and Deborah Green, who grew up inside the compound, watched the control tighten, and eventually made her move toward escape. Harrison also traces the timeline from the 1989 legal trouble to the group’s move to rural New Mexico, and finally the 2017 raid and trial that bring the story to a head. Along the way, he digs into Satanic Panic, cult fear tactics, and the weirdly persuasive power of “we’re the only safe people on Earth” energy.

He also gets into religion, doubt, and the difference between faith and outright nonsense, which is honestly a pretty solid distinction to keep in your back pocket. Our convo with him is sharp, unsettling, and still somehow darkly funny in that very specific “welcome to the American weirdness machine” kind of way.

Be sure to pick up his book, The Oracle’s Daughter, and follow him on Instagram @1harrisonhill.

Trigger warning: This episode contains frank discussion of coercive control, family separation, religious and emotional abuse, sexual shaming, Satanic Panic, and child endangerment.

Also…let it be known that:
The views and opinions expressed on A Little Bit Culty do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business, individual, anyone or anything. Nobody’s mad at you, just don’t be a culty fuckwad.

Buy the A Little Bit Culty book on Amazon or order a signed copy.
Check out our amazing sponsors
Join A Little Bit Culty on Patreon
Get poppin’ fresh ALBC Swag
Support the pod and smash this link
Check out our cult awareness and recovery resources
Watch Sarah's TED Talk and buy her memoir, Scarred

CREDITS:
Executive Producers: Sarah Edmondson & Anthony Ames
Production Partner: Citizens of Sound
Co-Creator: Jess Tardy
Audio production: Will Retherford
Production Coordinator: Lesli Dinsmore
Writer: Sandra Nomoto
Social media team: Eric Skwarzynski and Brooke Keane
Theme Song: “Cultivated” by Jon Bryant co-written with Nygel Asselin

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode is sponsored by Betterhelp.

In this episode, Harrison Hill joins us to discuss his book The Oracle’s Daughter and the rise and fall of the Aggressive Christianity Missions Training Corps (ACMTC), a group that began as Free Love Ministries and spiraled into an intensely controlling Christian cult. He explains how founders Jim and Deborah Green evolved from 1960s hippies into charismatic leaders, built a world of early-morning prayer, deliverance/exorcisms, relentless meetings, and total obedience, and drew people in with a mix of housing, food, work, and spiritual certainty.

Harrison also traces the stories of the women at the center of the book: Deborah Green, her daughter Sarah, and Maura Schmierer, whose slow movement into the group shows how cult involvement often happens in small, incremental steps rather than one dramatic leap. He describes the group’s use of “God’s army” rhetoric, demon-based explanations for ordinary feelings like fatigue, the deliberate cutting off of “blood ties,” and the way family bonds were treated as a threat to the movement’s authority. You’ll definitely wanna stay tuned for Part 2 of our convo.

Be sure to pick up his book, The Oracle’s Daughter, and follow him on Instagram @1harrisonhill.

Trigger warning: This episode contains frank discussion of coercive control, emotional and spiritual abuse, family separation, exorcism/deliverance practices, and references to child endangerment.

Also…let it be known that:
The views and opinions expressed on A Little Bit Culty do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business, individual, anyone or anything. Nobody’s mad at you, just don’t be a culty fuckwad.

Buy the A Little Bit Culty book on Amazon or order a signed copy.
Check out our amazing sponsors
Join A Little Bit Culty on Patreon
Get poppin’ fresh ALBC Swag
Support the pod and smash this link
Check out our cult awareness and recovery resources
Watch Sarah's TED Talk and buy her memoir, Scarred

CREDITS:
Executive Producers: Sarah Edmondson & Anthony Ames
Production Partner: Citizens of Sound
Co-Creator: Jess Tardy
Audio production: Will Retherford
Production Coordinator: Lesli Dinsmore
Writer: Sandra Nomoto
Social media team: Eric Skwarzynski and Brooke Keane
Theme Song: “Cultivated” by Jon Bryant co-written with Nygel Asselin

SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS:
When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign up and get 10 percent off at BetterHelp.com/culty.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Part 2 with Melissa Duge Spiers picks up at the “WTF moment” when a call about her beloved father—a once‑celebrated Adventist youth pastor and doctor—exposes him as a child predator and shatters the good‑dad/bad‑mom story she’d carried her whole life. She walks listeners through confronting her parents, befriending “Dr. Z,” a former teen congregant who details the grooming and abuse, and realizing how deeply the Seventh‑day Adventist structure protected her father from quiet removal deals and put him back in the pulpit despite promises to keep him away from children.
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She zooms out to the broader SDA pattern: stories pouring into her social channels, the church’s historic role in conversion therapy and even female genital mutilation, and how these institutional obsessions with sex and control shaped her own relationships, including a dangerous “cult of one” partnership she ultimately escaped with the help of a religious‑trauma therapist and psychedelic‑assisted work. As she finishes her memoir audiobook and helps launch a new mass‑tort case against the Adventist Church, Melissa shares what real healing has looked like—naming crimes as crimes, accepting there may never be full closure, and doing the slow, ongoing deconstruction that turns “I left” into genuine freedom on the other side.
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To file an abuse claim again Seventh-day Adventist Church with Pintas & Mullins: https://www.seventhdayadventist-claims.com

Be sure to pick up Melissa’s memoir, Holy Disobedience, when it launches this week, and follow her at The Glory Whole on Instagram and TikTok or on her Substack page: substack.com/@melissadugespiers

Trigger warning: This episode contains frank discussion of child sexual abuse, grooming by a clergy member, institutional cover‑ups, religious and spiritual abuse, conversion therapy, circumcision and female genital mutilation, and narcissistic/abusive relationships.

Also…let it be known that:
The views and opinions expressed on A Little Bit Culty do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business, individual, anyone or anything. Nobody’s mad at you, just don’t be a culty fuckwad.

Buy the A Little Bit Culty book on Amazon!
Check out our amazing sponsors
Join A Little Bit Culty on Patreon
Get poppin’ fresh ALBC Swag
Support the pod and smash this link
Check out our cult awareness and recovery resources
Watch Sarah's TED Talk and buy her memoir, Scarred

CREDITS:
Executive Producers: Sarah Edmondson & Anthony Ames
Production Partner: Citizens of Sound
Co-Creator: Jess Tardy
Audio production: Will Retherford
Production Coordinator: Lesli Dinsmore
Writer: Sandra Nomoto
Social media team: Eric Skwarzynski and Brooke Keane
Theme Song: “Cultivated” by Jon Bryant co-written with Nygel Asselin

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In Part 1 of our episode with Melissa Duge Spiers, she pulls back the curtain on Seventh‑day Adventism (SDA)—a massive but strangely invisible denomination she describes as a classic end‑times cult built on control of food, bodies, and behavior. She traces the movement’s roots through prophet Ellen G. White, mad‑hatters‑era health fads, Kellogg’s cornflakes‑as‑anti‑masturbation tool, and the church’s global education and medical empire, which still funnels power to “crusty old white men” in Washington while aggressively proselytizing in vulnerable communities.
​
Melissa zoomed into her own multi‑generational SDA family: a great‑grandmother pulled in by a job and schooling for her kids, generations of Adventist doctors, and parents who enforced extreme modesty, hair and weight control, media bans, and purity culture so intense that even nail polish and books were policed. Gymnastics, banned Saturday competitions, secret library runs, and a “shirt” virginity metaphor all shaped her sexuality and body image. As a teen, she decided to reclaim her agency by deliberately “losing” her virginity to a public‑school athlete, only to replay the same patriarchal script later through older conservative partners and dysfunctional marriages that echoed SDA-style submission without the theology.

Be sure to pick up Melissa’s memoir, Holy Disobedience, when it launches this week, and follow her at The Glory Whole on Instagram and TikTok or on her Substack page: substack.com/@melissadugespiers
​
Trigger warning: This episode contains frank discussion of religious and spiritual abuse, body‑ and weight‑shaming, coercive purity culture and sexual scripts, and child corporal punishment.

Also…let it be known that:
The views and opinions expressed on A Little Bit Culty do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business, individual, anyone or anything. Nobody’s mad at you, just don’t be a culty fuckwad.

Buy the A Little Bit Culty book on Amazon!
Check out our amazing sponsors
Join A Little Bit Culty on Patreon
Get poppin’ fresh ALBC Swag
Support the pod and smash this link
Check out our cult awareness and recovery resources
Watch Sarah's TED Talk and buy her memoir, Scarred

CREDITS:
Executive Producers: Sarah Edmondson & Anthony Ames
Production Partner: Citizens of Sound
Co-Creator: Jess Tardy
Audio production: Will Retherford
Production Coordinator: Lesli Dinsmore
Writer: Sandra Nomoto
Social media team: Eric Skwarzynski and Brooke Keane
Theme Song: “Cultivated” by Jon Bryant co-written with Nygel Asselin

SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS:
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See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.