The Interface

Should you be nice to your chatbot? Anthropic says its Claude models will be able to end conversations if users are needlessly cruel. Thomas Germain and Jessica Maddox ask why AI companies are increasingly talking about AI welfare, and what it could mean for the rest of us if the industry starts weighing a model's wellbeing against ours.
Tom and Jess dig into the research behind the claims, the online backlash over an "AI torture chamber," and why consciousness is still an open question for scientists and philosophers.
Plus, Jess reveals her college freshmen don't know who Jake Paul is. Is going viral a thing of the past, and what replaces it when the internet splinters into millions of niches?
The Interface is your weekly guide to the tech rewiring your week and your world. Hosted by journalist Thomas Germain and “professor of the internet” Jessica Maddox, each episode unpacks, week by week, how technology is shaping all our futures. No jargon. Just two sharp voices debating the stories that matter - whether they shook a government, broke the internet, or quietly tipped the balance of power.
New episodes drop every Wednesday on BBC Sounds in the UK. Outside the UK, find us on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts, or watch the video version on YouTube (search “The Interface podcast”). To get in touch with the team: theinterface@bbc.com
The Interface is a BBC Studios production.
Producer: Becca Bryers
Executive Editor: Philip Sellars

Frances Haugen, the Facebook whistleblower, joins Jess Maddox and Thomas Germain on The Interface to talk about The Social Reckoning, the new film that follows her story and acts as a sequel to The Social Network. It stars Mikey Madison as Haugen, alongside Jeremy Strong and Jeremy Allen White.
Haugen, who leaked internal documents known as the Facebook Files in 2021, explains why she believes Meta (formerly Facebook) needed outside scrutiny, and what she saw as a product manager that changed her mind about fixing it from the inside. She discusses what she says the documents and court filings reveal about teen safety on Instagram and Facebook, and the platform's impact on schools.
She also looks at what has changed since 2021, from the wave of US lawsuits over social media design and harm to children, to the EU's Digital Services Act and Australia's under-16 social media ban. Haugen explains what she thinks "practical, moderate oversight" could look like.
She also talks about the personal cost of blowing the whistle, and shares her advice for employees at AI labs who may face the same choice.
Jess and Thomas discuss why so many films about tech leaders are landing at once, what the shift in public attitudes means for Big Tech, and whether AI companies can learn from the social media era.
After our request for comment, Meta told us they had previously addressed the issues raised by Frances Haugen in this episode. They stated they have strict rules against content that encourages or glorifies self harm, that Teen Accounts have strict message settings and nudity protection by default, and they have evidence of decades-long work to develop and release teen safety protections. Meta have also previously acknowledged that they could have done more to prevent Facebook being used to incite offline violence in Myanmar, and they have since implemented corrective actions.
The Interface is your weekly guide to the tech rewiring your week and your world. Hosted by journalist Thomas Germain and “professor of the internet” Jessica Maddox, each episode unpacks, week by week, how technology is shaping all our futures. No jargon. Just two sharp voices debating the stories that matter - whether they shook a government, broke the internet, or quietly tipped the balance of power.
New episodes drop every Wednesday on BBC Sounds in the UK. Outside the UK, find us on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts, or watch the video version on YouTube (search “The Interface podcast”).
To get in touch with the team: theinterface@bbc.com
The Interface is a BBC Studios production.
Producer: Becca Bryers
Executive Editor: Philip Sellars

The Interface returns for season two with a new co-host. BBC technology columnist Thomas Germain is joined by Jessica Maddox, a University of Georgia professor who studies memes and internet culture, to break down the tech stories that actually matter in your day-to-day life.
Is AI going to kill us all? After high-profile tech workers warned of an AI apocalypse, Tom and Jess look at where the industry's "P(doom)" numbers come from and why some experts say they're based on vibes rather than science. They weigh warnings from Anthropic safety advisor Evan Hubiger, against computer scientist Yann LeCun's view that the risk is close to zero, and ask why AI companies are calling for regulation just before the US midterms.
Meta's Muse AI agent: what happens when you give an AI agent access to your inbox? Tom sets up Muse, Meta's new personal AI agent, and hands over 20 years of emails and his calendar. It can negotiate bills and buy things on your behalf, but what does it mean for privacy and the very future of the internet? Tom and Jess discuss the flaws found in the days after launch, and looks at what Meta says it is doing to protect users' data.
In response to this discussion, a Meta spokesperson told us that Muse is “designed to be safe, secure and private – with built-in protections and user controls that put people in charge of how they use it." They added that safety and security was a "huge priority" and that Muse had been tested extensively and any identified vulnerabilities had been fixed. Meta says Muse is designed to respect the interests of websites it uses. The company also says users have complete control over what information and services Muse has access to, and the AI cannot access your messages without explicit permission. According to Meta, it delayed the release of Muse for months for additional privacy and security checks.
Microdramas: the 90-second shows taking over TikTok. Jess explains why vertical video series like Office Girl and Bound to My Hot Rival, with their mafia heirs, billionaire bosses and cliffhangers, are reshaping Hollywood. Jess and Tom disucuss how the pay-per-episode model works, and what the boom in AI-generated "slop" means for actors. Drawing on media theorist Marshall McLuhan and psychologist Gloria Mark's research, they ask what our shrinking attention spans say about how we watch.
The Interface is your weekly guide to the tech rewiring your week and your world. Hosted by journalist Thomas Germain and “professor of the internet” Jessica Maddox, each episode unpacks, week by week, how technology is shaping all our futures. No jargon. Just two sharp voices debating the stories that matter - whether they shook a government, broke the internet, or quietly tipped the balance of power.
New episodes drop every Wednesday on BBC Sounds in the UK. Outside the UK, find us on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts, or watch the video version on YouTube (search “The Interface podcast”).
To get in touch with the team: theinterface@bbc.com
The Interface is a BBC Studios production.
Producer: Becca Bryers
Executive Editor: Philip Sellars

This week on The Interface: is World Cup tech taking the human magic out of football?
For our season finale before the summer break, Karen, Thomas and Nicky start with the World Cup - and ask what happens when football becomes a showcase for ever more technology. This year’s tournament has brought referee body cameras, faster semi-automated offside decisions, and more AI-powered match analysis for teams and broadcasters, all in the name of accuracy, transparency and engagement. But as the game gets ever more engineered, there’s a bigger question underneath it: do these tools improve the sport, or do they slowly sand away some of the human error, chaos and competitive tension that made it thrilling in the first place?
Also this week: the infinite workweek. AI was supposed to take tasks off our plates — but in practice, it may be doing the opposite. Microsoft’s research on the“infinite workday” warned that work is already bleeding into mornings, nights and weekends, and that AI could make that worse if companies simply speed up broken workflows instead of redesigning them. And as more people work alongside AI agents, some describe a strange new role: not freed by automation, but stuck supervising it — an always-on form of “AI babysitting” in which the machine keeps working, and you’re never fully off duty.
And because this is the last episode of season one, Thomas, Karen and Nicky also look back on their favourite moments from season one, dip into the listener mailbag, and revisit some of the stories we’ve followed over the past 20 weeks - before The Interface heads off for a summer (screen) break.
The Interface is your weekly guide to the tech rewiring your week and your world. Hosted by journalists Karen Hao, Thomas Germain and Nicky Woolf, each episode unpacks, week by week, how technology is shaping all our futures. No guests. No jargon. Just three sharp voices debating the stories that matter — whether they shook a government, broke the internet, or quietly tipped the balance of power.
New episodes drop every Thursday on BBC Sounds in the UK. Outside the UK, find us on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts, or watch the video version on YouTube (search“The Interface podcast”).
To get in touch with the team: theinterface@bbc.com
The Interface is a BBC Studios production.
Producer: Natalia Rodriguez Ford
Executive Editor: Philip Sellars

This week on The Interface: the UK’s under-16s social media ban - is America next?
The UK is preparing to go further than almost any other country on children and social media: under-16s will be blocked from platforms including TikTok, Instagram, Snapchat, YouTube, Facebook and X, while messaging apps like WhatsApp and Signal are expected to be excluded. Ministers are also considering overnight curfews and limits on infinite scroll for under-18s, with implementation targeted for spring 2027.
Karen, Tom and Nicky ask the obvious question: will it work? Australia’s early results suggest enforcement is hard: the Molly Rose Foundation found 61% of 12–15-year-olds who had used restricted platforms still had access to at least one account, and 70% of those still using banned sites said it was easy to get around the rules. That raises a bigger issue too: if this all depends on age verification, does everyone end up having to prove their age just to use the internet? And with 64% of US voters already saying they support a ban for under-16s, is Britain about to start a trend?
Also this week: why are AI companies getting involved in fusion energy?
Fusion has been hyped for decades as near-limitless clean power - but it remains hugely difficult, expensive and years away from broad commercial use. So why are AI firms suddenly interested? Because data centres need vast amounts of electricity, and fast. Sam Altman-backed Helion has just raised another $465 million and is trying to build its first plant for Microsoft by 2028, while other fusion firms are pitching themselves as the answer to AI’s energy appetite. Karen and Nicky ask whether fusion is a realistic answer to the data-centre crunch — or just the latest shiny idea being pulled into the AI boom.
And finally: could Siri’s new AI update change how we use our phones forever?
At WWDC 2026, Apple unveiled a rebuilt Siri AI with deeper access to your messages, emails, photos and apps, plus broader “world knowledge” and more natural conversations. Apple is pitching it as a much more capable assistant — one that could make AI feel normal for people who’ve never really used it before.
But not everyone gets the same Siri. Some of the most advanced on-device features are limited to Apple’s newest hardware, including iPhone 17 Pro, and users have to join a waitlist even in beta. Tom asks the big question: if Siri finally works the way Apple has long promised, could that genuinely change how we use our phones — or is this still another catch-up move in the AI race?
The Interface is your weekly guide to the tech rewiring your week and your world. Hosted by journalists Karen Hao, Thomas Germain and Nicky Woolf, each episode unpacks, week by week, how technology is shaping all our futures. No guests. No jargon. Just three sharp voices debating the stories that matter — whether they shook a government, broke the internet, or quietly tipped the balance of power.
New episodes drop every Thursday on BBC Sounds in the UK. Outside the UK, find us on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts, or watch the video version on YouTube (search “The Interface podcast”).
To get in touch with the team: theinterface@bbc.com
The Interface is a BBC Studios production.
Producer: Natalia Rodriguez Ford
Executive Editor: Philip Sellars