Ruminations

• Regenerating Patagonia's Grasslands

  In this episode we're joined by Pablo Borelli, co-founder of Ovis 21, the Savory Hub in Argentina. With a background in agronomy and extensive experience in Holistic Management, Pablo shares insights on how Ovis 21 has impacted over 26 million hectares and trained over 5,000 people in Holistic Management over the last decade. The conversation explores Pablo’s journey, the underlying principles and key insights of Holistic Management, and the transformative effects it has had on Patagonian grasslands and livestock management. Plus, dive into case studies and real-world applications that highlight the importance of planned grazing, recovery periods, and the ecological benefits of regenerative agriculture.   +++ ALL EPISODES: 👉 https://savory.global/podcast JOIN THE COMMUNITY + GET MEMBERS-ONLY PERKS: 👉 https://savory.global/member GET INVOLVED WITH SAVORY INSTITUTE: 👉 https://savory.global/find-your-path   +++ 00:00 Intro 04:35 Challenges and Innovations in Holistic Management 10:05 Early Adoption and Training in Patagonia 26:39 Holistic Management Principles and Practices 39:57 Understanding Holistic Grazing Plans 40:20 Redefining Overgrazing 43:25 The Concept of Overresting 48:08 Four Key Insights of Holistic Management 50:29 Importance of Holistic Context 58:16 Holistic Planned Grazing Explained 01:04:39 Recovery Periods in Grazing Plans 01:11:53 Advice for New Holistic Managers 01:13:09 The Future of Regenerative Grazing 01:20:22 Final Thoughts   +++ This episode is brought to you by Savory’s Regenerating Members, a global community restoring over 100 million acres through Holistic Management. For less than $1 per day, you can help regenerate 400+ acres every year: 👉 https://savory.global/member   Want to sponsor an episode? 👉 https://savory.global/podcast   +++ FIND US ON SOCIAL: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/savoryinstitute LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/savory-institute/   +++ HAVE A GUEST SUGGESTION? We’d love to hear your thoughts: 👉 https://www.tfaforms.com/5169997   +++ Music written & performed by https://www.youtube.com/@travismcnamara9313

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  1:23:34
• The Nutritional Merits of Animal Sourced Foods

  In this episode of Ruminations, we sit down with registered dietician and author Diana Rodgers to discuss her recent peer-reviewed paper on the nutritional benefits of animal-sourced foods. We delve into the challenges and biases she faced in getting her research published and break down common misconceptions about meat consumption. The conversation covers detailed nutritional information, the importance of protein, iron, zinc, B12, and the environmental and ethical aspects of meat production. Additionally, Diana shares her personal journey and announces her shift towards a new chapter in life centered around art and community. +++ ALL EPISODES: 👉 https://savory.global/podcast JOIN THE COMMUNITY + GET MEMBERS-ONLY PERKS: 👉 https://savory.global/member GET INVOLVED WITH SAVORY INSTITUTE: 👉 https://savory.global/find-your-path +++ TIME STAMPS: 00:00 Intro 05:25 Challenges in Nutrition and Dietetics 14:32 Understanding Scientific Studies 23:56 Nutritional Benefits of Red Meat 33:59 Protein Intake and Dietary Recommendations 45:10 Exploring Protein Needs for Older Adults 46:31 Challenges in Publishing Nutrition Research 48:12 Historical Roots of Anti-Meat Bias 54:30 Nutritional Benefits of Red Meat 01:04:50 Debunking Anti-Meat Arguments 01:18:23 Advice for Vegetarians and Vegans 01:23:28 Transitioning to a New Chapter 01:27:10 Final Thoughts and Resources +++ This episode is brought to you by Savory Institute’s Regenerating Members, a global community committed to restoring grasslands. Learn more and join for just $15/month at 👉 https://savory.global/member Want to sponsor an episode? +++ MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: Considering the Nutritional Benefits and Health Implications of Red Meat in the Era of Meatless Initiatives – https://doi.org/10.3389/fnut.2025.1525011 Sacred Cow documentary – https://youtu.be/hjyBUk6AQ1M?si=Y6ZvTnkeMcibbXmg Sacred Cow (book) by Diana Rodgers & Robb Wolf – https://savory.global/science_library/sacred-cow-the-case-for-better-meat/ Dr. Gabrielle Lyon – https://drgabriellelyon.com Olivia Robertson Moe – https://www.instagram.com/revolveprimalhealth/ Rachel Paul (The College Nutritionist) – https://www.drrachelpaul.com/ +++ Stay in Touch with Diana sustainabledish.com @sustainabledish +++ FIND US ON SOCIAL: YouTube: @SavoryInstitute Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/savoryinstitute LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/savory-institute/ NEVER MISS AN EPISODE: Spotify Apple Podcasts +++

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  1:32:55
• Opening the Gate For a New Generation of Cowgirls

  Beth Robinette is a fourth-generation cattle rancher, educator, and co-founder of New Cowgirl Camp (https://www.newcowgirlcamp.com/) who joins the podcast to talk about what it really means to build a more inclusive, resilient future for agriculture.   From her roots on the Lazy R Ranch in Washington’s channeled scablands to her work leading education at UVE (a Savory Hub covering the Intermountain West region of the US), Beth shares how she’s blending business, ecology, and equity to reimagine land stewardship.   The discussion covers being a second-generation Holistic Management practitioner, why creating a safe environment is essential to learning, and how cultural restoration—like digging camas with Salish youth—can deepen our relationship with the land. This is a powerful conversation about leadership, belonging, and making space for new voices in ranching.   +++ ALL EPISODES: 👉 https://savory.global/podcast JOIN THE COMMUNITY + GET MEMBERS-ONLY PERKS: 👉 https://savory.global/member GET INVOLVED WITH SAVORY INSTITUTE: 👉 https://savory.global/find-your-path +++ TIME STAMPS: [03:25] Beth's Family Ranching History [06:43] Transition to Holistic Management [10:59] Beth's Personal Journey and Education [15:32] Challenges and Insights in Ranching [21:32] New Cowgirl Camp: Empowering Women in Ranching [27:15] Community Building and Future of Agriculture [50:09] Savory Institute and Global Impact [55:12] Hunters of Color and Reciprocal Goodness [58:07] Diverse Backgrounds and Good Food [58:38] Relearning Land History [01:01:05[ Indigenous Land Management [01:04:41[ Collaboration with Salish School [01:16:33] Challenges and Adaptations in Land Management [01:35:46] Future Vision and Community Building   +++ This episode is brought to you by Savory Institute’s Regenerating Members, a global community committed to restoring grasslands. Learn more and join for just $10/month at 👉 https://savory.global/member Want to sponsor an episode?  +++ MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: Lazy R Ranch New Cowgirl Camp Roots of Resilience Salish School of Spokane UVE - Intermountain West Savory Hub Savory’s Earth Day Giveaway +++ FIND US ON SOCIAL: YouTube: @SavoryInstitute Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/savoryinstitute LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/savory-institute/ NEVER MISS AN EPISODE: Spotify Apple Podcasts +++ HAVE A GUEST SUGGESTION? We’d love to hear your thoughts. Suggest future guests here: https://www.tfaforms.com/5169997

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  1:53:34
• Running a Grassfed and Regenerative Dairy Farm

  In this episode of Ruminations, we’re joined by Paul and Phyllis Van Amburgh of Dharma Lea—a 100% grass-fed, holistically managed dairy in upstate New York. They share their unlikely journey from first-time conventional dairy farmers to nationally recognized leaders in regenerative agriculture. What changed everything? Holistic Management. We get into the weeds of what that transition really looked like—from the tough decisions and mindset shifts to the practical changes on the ground. By moving from rotational to holistic planned grazing, they extended their grazing season by 120%, slashed feed costs, and brought herd health to a whole new level—cutting mastitis rates from 73% to just 3%. But their impact didn’t stop at the farm gate. Paul and Phyllis helped build the supply chain for Maple Hill Creamery, guiding over 125 farms in making the leap to grass-fed. Today, they mentor fellow farmers who want to build operations that are ecologically sound, financially viable, and deeply rooted in values. This is a candid, practical, and inspiring conversation about what it really takes to go regenerative—and why it’s worth it. +++ ALL EPISODES: 👉 https://savory.global/podcast JOIN THE COMMUNITY + GET MEMBERS-ONLY PERKS: 👉 https://savory.global/member GET INVOLVED WITH SAVORY INSTITUTE: 👉 https://savory.global/find-your-path +++ TIME STAMPS: [5:33] Life on the farm   [13:00] Why they built a family-run business   [26:41] Getting into farming   [37:24] Unlearning old business habits   [43:40] Grass-fed vs grain-fed: financial insights   [57:55] Transition to 100% grass-fed dairy   [58:00] Managing yield drag & system change   [1:04:33] Improving soil health   [1:07:29] Understanding forage & nutrition   [1:16:38] From utilization to recovery mindset   [1:32:21] Planned vs rotational grazing   [1:39:09] Advice for transitioning farmers   [1:47:07] What changed slowly over time   [1:52:11] Visiting Dimbangombe in Zimbabwe   [1:59:32] Future of regenerative agriculture [2:10:21] Closing +++ This episode is brought to you by Savory Institute’s Regenerating Members, a global community committed to restoring grasslands. Learn more and join for just $10/month at 👉 https://savory.global/member Want to sponsor an episode? [sponsorship link] +++ MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: Dharma Lea Dairy Maple Hill Creamery Less Stress, More Grass Case Study Africa Centre for Holistic Management Savory’s Earth Day Giveaway +++ FIND US ON SOCIAL: YouTube: @SavoryInstitute Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/savoryinstitute LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/savory-institute/ NEVER MISS AN EPISODE: Spotify Apple Podcasts +++ HAVE A GUEST SUGGESTION? We’d love to hear your thoughts. Suggest future guests here: https://www.tfaforms.com/5169997

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  2:13:19
• Running a Regenerative Business with Tre Cates

  Regenerative Business and Living Systems Design with Tre Cates In this episode of Ruminations, host Bobby Gill delves into regenerative business practices with Tre Cates, founder of nRhythm. They explore the concepts of living systems design, organizational health, and the distinction between managing complexity versus control. Cates shares his experiences from working with the Savory Institute, the development of the Savory Hub model, and the transformation of businesses by applying regenerative principles. This episode offers deep insights into creating resilient and thriving organizations by focusing on the interconnectedness of people, processes, and the environment. Tre Cates is the founder of nRhythm, a consulting firm helping organizations around the world design systems that align with the principles of life itself—complexity, emergence, resilience, and interconnectedness. In this episode of @SavoryInstitute’s Ruminations podcast, Tre joins us to explore: - What It Means to Design a Regenerative Organization - The Difference Between Complicated and Complex Systems (and -- Why It Matters) - How Businesses Can Create the Conditions for Life, Not Just Profit +++ ALL EPISODES:  https://savory.global/podcast JOIN THE COMMUNITY + GET MEMBERS-ONLY PERKS:  https://savory.global/member GET INVOLVED WITH SAVORY INSTITUTE:  https://savory.global/find-your-path +++ TIME STAMPS: 00:35 Meet Tre Cates: Founder of nRhythm 01:18 Savory Institute and Holistic Management 01:39 Exploring Complexity and Leadership 02:12 Sponsor Message: Savory Journey Giveaway 04:15 Conversation with Tre Cates Begins 05:42 Understanding the Cartesian Split 08:38 Complexity in Agriculture and Beyond 16:54 Managing Complexity vs. Control 28:27 Patterns and Principles of Living Systems 32:09 nRhythm's Approach to Regenerative Organizations 43:27 Foundational Beliefs and Operational Identity 44:52 Monitoring Health and Emergence 51:20 Understanding Governance Structures 53:00 Creating Conditions for Success 55:42 Monitoring for Emergence 56:55 Embracing Emergence in Organizations 01:11:34 Case Study: Transforming a Boutique Firm 01:18:44 The Savory Hub Network and Decentralization 01:26:13 Influential Thinkers and Schools of Thought 01:33:19 Future Patterns and Societal Shifts 01:44:00 Final Thoughts and Call to Action +++ This episode is brought to you by Savory’s Regenerating Members, a global community restoring over 100 million acres through holistic management. Join today for just $10/month and help regenerate 400+ acres every year:  https://savory.global/member Want to sponsor an episode?  https://savory.global/podcast +++ MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: nRhythm • Savory Institute • Holistic Management +++ FIND US ON SOCIAL: YouTube: @SavoryInstitute Instagram: @savoryinstitute LinkedIn: Savory Institute +++ HAVE A GUEST SUGGESTION? We’d love to hear your thoughts:  https://www.tfaforms.com/5169997

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  1:46:24

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