Keen On America

“I took it for granted that we were trying to make the world a better place. But I think in retrospect that was naïve. What kind of change? For whom? We kind of forgot to specify what the purpose of all this disruption was.” — Eric Ries
 
In 2011, Eric Ries published The Lean Startup, a book that reflected the optimistic zeitgeist about disruptive Silicon Valley companies. Fifteen years later, in Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad and How Great Companies Stay Great, Ries reflects today’s totally different zeitgeist about the value of companies inside and outside Silicon Valley.
 
Back in 2011, everybody loved tech. Ries, creator of the Lean Startup method and founder of the Long-Term Stock Exchange, admits he was naïve in his positive view of disruptive corporations. In Incorruptible, Ries argues that corporate corruption is structural, rather than a problem of bad actors. As organisations grow (ie: become more disruptive), the systems that govern them — ownership, incentives, charters, accountability — quietly reshape behaviour. Success itself becomes a form of financial gravity, diverting companies away from their original purpose.
 
Ries proposes that we design organisations to be incorruptible from the beginning. It’s the Patagonia model. When the outdoor clothing company almost went bankrupt in the 1990s, their bank agreed to restructure their loans if they would suspend their charitable donations for a couple of years. No deal, the CEO said. The bank blinked and Patagonia remained Patagonia. Now, Ries argues, every corporation should try to emulate Patagonia and become the incorruptible corporation. We must all join Eric Ries in getting beyond the lean startup.
 
Five Takeaways
 
•       Corporate Corruption Is Structural, Not Ethical: For decades, we’ve explained corporate failures as problems of bad actors, moral weakness, or isolated scandals. Ries’ argument: that story doesn’t match reality. Again and again, companies founded with strong ideals drift toward short-term thinking, extractive behaviour, and mission abandonment — often despite the best intentions of people inside them. The failure is structural. As organisations grow, the systems that govern them — ownership structures, incentives, charters — quietly reshape behaviour. Success becomes financial gravity, bending companies away from their purpose.
 
•       The Patagonia Model: Organisational Strength, Not Moral Righteousness: When Patagonia nearly went bankrupt in the 1990s due to outsourcing to poor-quality foreign factories, their lead lender agreed to restructure the loans on one condition: suspend charitable donations during the restructuring. Reasonable request — any other company would have said yes. Patagonia said no. The bank blinked. Ries’ reading: this is not moral righteousness. It is organisational strength. The ability to resist external pressure and stay true to a core principle. That is what makes a company not just good but great. Also: Black Wednesday, the day of their layoffs, is still referred to by name inside the company.
 
•       The Wrong Distinction: For-Profit vs Non-Profit: Ries argues that the distinction between for-profit and non-profit is fundamentally a tax code distinction that has come to define how we think about organisations in ways that are misleading and harmful. He proposes a reframe: if profit means the maximisation of human flourishing, then the Smithsonian is very for-profit and Philip Morris is very non-profit. This reframe changes what we should demand of governance, of accountability, of what organisations are for. It is simultaneously an economic and a political argument.
 
•       Civic Infrastructure: The Political Dimension: Ries’ book ends with a chapter on what he calls civic infrastructure — the kinds of organisations that set the rules of the road for others. He argues that the principles of incorruptible design apply not just to companies but to the institutions of governance. The darkness of the current political moment is, for him, partly a failure of organisational design. When this darkness passes, he argues, the generation that follows will have to rebuild civic infrastructure in the way the generation that survived the Depression built the institutions that governed the second half of the twentieth century.
 
•       The Anakin/Padamé Problem: Ries’ Mea Culpa: Ries opens with a reference to the famous internet meme — Anakin says he’s going to change the world, and Padamé asks: for the better? He grins mischievously. Ries used to find it funny. Then it stopped being funny. When he wrote The Lean Startup, he assumed the purpose of disruption was to make the world a better place. He took it for granted. He now thinks that was naïve. The lesson: you have to specify the purpose. What kind of change? For whom? That is the question that Incorruptible is trying to answer.
 
About the Guest
 
Eric Ries is the creator of the Lean Startup method and the author of the New York Times bestseller The Lean Startup, The Leader’s Guide, and The Startup Way. As a founder, he has put his ideas into practice with the Long-Term Stock Exchange (LTSE), Answer.AI, Virgil, and IMVU. He is the author of Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad and How Great Companies Stay Great (Authors Equity/Simon & Schuster, May 26, 2026). He lives in the San Francisco Bay Area.
 
References:
 
•       Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad and How Great Companies Stay Great by Eric Ries (Authors Equity, May 26, 2026).
 
•       The Lean Startup by Eric Ries (Crown Business, 2011).
 
•       The Startup Way by Eric Ries (Currency, 2017).
 
•       More information and bonus materials at incorruptible.co.
 
About Keen On America
 
Nobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen. In Keen On America, Andrew brings his pointed Transatlantic wit to making sense of the United States — hosting daily interviews about the history and future of this now venerable Republic. With nearly 2,900 episodes since the show launched on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting.
 
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“There is a pretty powerful strain in America today in which men feel some need to be violent and domineering to sort of prove their masculinity. And there’s sort of less intense but still prevalent strains that infect many other types of men.” — Jasper Craven
 
Today is Memorial Day — America’s annual celebration of its warriors and military ethic. But for Jasper Craven, author of God Forgives, Brothers Don’t: The Long March of Military Education and the Making of American Manhood, it should be a day of muted self-reflection rather than bellicose celebration. Especially in May 2026 with America involved in another ludicrous overseas war.
 
Craven’s argument is that from George Washington onwards, America has fused military manliness with a self-destructive masculine identity. Thus young men are trained at top military academies like West Point to be unthinkingly domineering and violent. But for Craven, America — a continent surrounded by oceans to the east and west and by friendly neighbours to the north and south — has no need for the unreflective militarism fetishised by its military academies and culture.
 
So what has West Point wrought? A nation of Pete Hegseths, Jasper Craven implies. Happy (ie: peaceful) Memorial Day everyone.
 
Five Takeaways
 
•       Military Manliness and American Identity: From Washington to Hegseth: From the Founding Fathers — most of whom were Revolutionary War veterans — America has explicitly fused military manliness with core masculine identity. Boys who want to define themselves as Americans have felt a need to be strong, to serve, to defend. The archetype has only been beefed up over time: through the steroid era and into the world of Navy SEALs and special operators. The result is a culture where men feel the need to be violent and domineering to prove their masculinity, from carrying AK-47s to protests to becoming ICE agents. The problem: the archetype has no relationship to actual national security needs.
 
•       West Point and the Civil War: A Fuse, Not a Remedy: West Point was created to produce a well-schooled officer class. What Craven argues: when you allocate massive resources to building a military, you will feel the consequences. Before the Civil War, West Point was segregated into northern and southern companies — which exacerbated tensions rather than building union. When war broke out, many West Point officers defected to the Confederacy, including Robert E. Lee, who had been superintendent. West Point officers on opposite sides then killed each other in their thousands. Many lawmakers called for West Point to be abolished. They were not heeded.
 
•       Race, Integration, and the Military’s Complex Legacy: Craven acknowledges the military’s partial role in racial integration: Truman’s executive order in 1948 desegregated the armed forces, which was a genuine milestone ahead of civilian institutions. But he is careful about what this means. Integration at the institutional level did not eliminate racism within the culture. And the same military that desegregated also produced the culture of violence, dehumanisation of the other, and misogyny and homophobia that Craven chronicles throughout the book. Partial credit is still only partial credit.
 
•       January 6th and the Politicisation of the Officer Class: In Trump’s first term, General Mattis and General Kelly and others demonstrated real courage in reining in Trump’s worst impulses. By the end of that term, they had all been replaced by loyalists. During the transition to Biden, Trump’s military cronies at the Pentagon went dark. January 6th was largely carried out by military veterans. More than 100 senior retired military officers penned an op-ed supporting what Trump had done. In Trump’s second term, the politicisation of the officer class has only accelerated. The non-political professional officer class is now divided.
 
•       ROTC, Not West Point: Craven’s Prescription: Craven’s preferred model: ROTC — military training supplemental to traditional liberal arts education. Survey data shows ROTC officers, because of exposure to Plato, Shakespeare, and the rest, are more well-rounded and better thinkers than West Point graduates. At West Point, it is essentially all STEM. Craven’s prescription: introduce the humanities, expose cadets to civilians, break the silos. Ideally, West Point could become a national university that includes military programmes alongside the training of doctors and aid workers. The military-civilian divide is as much the military’s creation as the civilian’s.
 
About the Guest
 
Jasper Craven is a freelance reporter covering the military and veterans’ issues. His work has appeared in the New York Times, Harper’s Magazine, Politico, The Baffler, and the New Republic. He is the author of God Forgives, Brothers Don’t: The Long March of Military Education and the Making of American Manhood (Atria/One Signal Publishers, May 19, 2026) and the co-author, with Suzanne Gordon and Steve Early, of Our Veterans. He lives in Brooklyn, New York.
 
References:
 
•       God Forgives, Brothers Don’t: The Long March of Military Education and the Making of American Manhood by Jasper Craven (Atria/One Signal Publishers, May 19, 2026).
 
•       Sebastian Junger, Tribe — referenced in the publishers’ framing as a companion text.
 
•       Chris Hedges, War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning — referenced as a companion text.
 
•       Episode 2907: Brandon Webb on Puddle Jumpers — the companion episode referenced at the opening; the pro-military counterpart to Craven’s critique.
 
•       Episode 2909: Adrian Goldsworthy on Athens vs Sparta — also referenced at the opening.
 
About Keen On America
 
Nobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen. In Keen On America, Andrew brings his pointed Transatlantic wit to making sense of the United States — hosting daily interviews about the history and future of this now venerable Republic. With nearly 2,900 episodes since the show launched on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting.
 
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“We’ve learned how to tolerate acts of violence, acts of widespread death, disease — that other developed nations simply don’t tolerate. And that tolerance manifesting in myriad political failures — all of which go back to our refusal to maturely deal with mortality and issues of grief.” — David Masciotra
 
Earlier this week, we talked to Ece Temelkuran about her book Nation of Strangers, a manifesto about strangers finding one another. But for the cultural critic David Masciotra, strangerdom is the problem rather than the solution. Contemporary America, he argues in his new essay A Country of Strangers, has become a place of death, despair and indifference.
 
Masciotra takes his cue from Albert Camus’ 1942 novella The Stranger. Camus’ Meursault — the narrator of The Stranger — is a man completely detached from meaning. He attends his own mother’s funeral without feeling anything. He murders an Arab man on a beach without motive. He faces his execution with a shrug. Masciotra’s argument is that the United States has become Meursault writ large. America’s failure is existential rather than political. It is a failure to mourn — a sustained refusal to engage with death, grief, and the weight of history that produces a society of strangers who cannot connect with one another across race, class, or geography.
 
So is Masciotra right? Are we all Meursault now? What can Albert Camus teach us about America?
 
Five Takeaways
 
•       Meursault and America: The Same Detachment: Camus’ The Stranger is narrated by Meursault — a man who attends his mother’s memorial without feeling, murders an Arab man on a beach without motive, and faces execution with indifference. The novel, Camus said, was his attempt to detail “man’s confrontation with absurdity in its nakedness.” Masciotra’s argument: this is America now. A country that has adopted Meursault’s emotional posture toward mass death. Columbine stopped the nation in 1999. Mass shootings now barely register. That is not political failure. It is existential failure.
 
•       A Failure to Mourn: Masciotra’s central thesis: America’s deepest problem is its refusal to mourn. Not guilt — he is careful to distinguish mourning from guilt. You can have a national memory that reckons with both what you celebrate and what you grieve. If the Founding Fathers are worth preserving in active memory, so are the people they enslaved. Never properly dealing with the Civil War allowed the resurgence of white supremacist movements. Never properly mourning mass shootings allows them to accelerate. The failure to grieve is not sentimental. It is political.
 
•       Is Meursault Autistic? The Spectrum Reading: Some contemporary critics read Meursault as someone on the autism spectrum — a man whose emotional detachment reflects neurodivergence rather than moral failure. Masciotra is skeptical. His reading: Camus’ portrait is one of moral refusal, not neurological condition. The distinction matters for the American parallel: if America’s indifference is a structural feature rather than a disease, the remedy is not therapy but political and cultural change. You can’t medicate a country into empathy.
 
•       The Colonial Murder and the Racial Hierarchy: Meursault murders an Arab man in French Algeria and feels nothing. Some critics fault Camus for not making colonialism more explicit. Masciotra defends Camus: Meursault doesn’t care about anything, including his own mother’s death. His indifference to his Arab victim’s humanity is the point, not an evasion. The parallel to America: the hierarchy of victims, where Black Americans have historically ranked lower in the eyes of law and institution. David Shipler’s 1997 book A Country of Strangers documented the same failure of Black and white Americans to actually talk to one another.
 
•       You Are the First Close White Friends I’ve Had: Masciotra’s friend Alana — a highly educated, cultured Black woman who lived in Chicago — once told him and his wife: “You are the first close white friends I’ve had.” They said the same back. This, Masciotra argues, is the country of strangers in daily life. Not the horror stories of overt racism. The quieter failure of self-imposed segregation that persists in a society that preaches diversity but, judging from its own behaviour, doesn’t really want it.
 
About the Guest
 
David Masciotra is a cultural critic and the author of six books, including Exurbia Now: The Battleground of American Democracy, I Am Somebody: Why Jesse Jackson Matters, and Mellencamp: American Troubadour. He has written for the Progressive, the New Republic, Liberties, and many other publications about politics, literature, and music. His Substack is Absurdia Now.
 
References:
 
•       A Country of Strangers: Death, Despair and Indifference in the US by David Masciotra, CounterPunch, May 1, 2026.
 
•       Albert Camus, The Stranger (1942). Camus’ novella, the primary text of the conversation.
 
•       Albert Camus, The Myth of Sisyphus and The Rebel — referenced in the conversation.
 
•       François Ozon, The Stranger (2024 film) — the adaptation that prompted the essay.
 
•       David Shipler, A Country of Strangers: Blacks and Whites in America (1997) — referenced in the conversation.
 
•       Episode 2903: Ece Temelkuran on Nation of Strangers — the companion episode referenced at the opening.
 
About Keen On America
 
Nobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen. In Keen On America, Andrew brings his pointed Transatlantic wit to making sense of the United States — hosting daily interviews about the history and future of this now venerable Republic. With nearly 2,900 episodes since the show launched on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting.
 
Website
Substack
YouTube
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
 
Chapters:
 

(00:31) - Introduction: Temelkuran’s nation of strangers and Masciotra’s country of strangers

(01...

“If you write something you think is really fanciful today, tomorrow’s news headlines might be telling the exact same story. That’s the challenge of writing realism today — when everything feels so sci-fi and so dystopic.” — Fred Lunzer
 
Boy meets girl meets AI therapist. That is the premise of Sike, the debut novel by Fred Lunzer. Adrian is a rap ghostwriter who has never met any of the rappers he writes for. After a relationship collapse, he signs up for Sike — a Facebook-style AI psychotherapy app that tracks your every move and emotion via smart glasses and guides you toward mental contentment. He meets Maquie, a venture capitalist and Sike refusnik. You can imagine the rest.
 
Sike is a self-consciously “realist” love story set in a world where AI therapy is ubiquitous. Lunzer wanted to write AI fiction that is realistic rather than dystopian or utopian. He started it speculatively. By the time he’d finished, ChatGPT had launched and what he’d once fancifully imagined had become reality. It’s the futuristic writer’s permanent predicament. Make the future believable before it becomes so familiar that we barely notice it. Turn science fiction into social realism.
 
Five Takeaways
 
•       AI Fiction Without Dystopia: The Gap Lunzer Is Filling: Almost all AI fiction is either utopian or dystopian. James Bond loves gadgets. Most literary fiction treats technology as vaguely grubby and pushes it into genre. Lunzer’s ambition: find the realism. Write about a world where AI is already everywhere, the initial fears are already past, and we’ve reached the same ambivalent relationship with it that we have with our smartphones. We don’t know what model we have. We barely think about it. That’s where the interesting questions live.
 
•       Reality Caught Up Before He Finished: Lunzer wrote Sike speculatively. By the time he finished, ChatGPT had launched. William Gibson’s observation: the future is already here, just unevenly distributed. His corollary: if you write something fanciful today, it’s tomorrow’s news story. Lunzer’s solution to this perpetual problem is to stop writing near-future speculation and instead set the story in a world where the technology is already past its introduction — where the hype is over and the real reckoning begins.
 
•       Realism Is the Hardest Genre Right Now: Andrew’s observation: the best AI fiction is realist. Ishiguro’s Klara and the Sun treats unimaginable things as taken for granted. That’s the technique. Lunzer agrees — and notes that realism is particularly hard to write now because everything already feels surreal. Trump, AI, the state of the world: if you’d described any of it thirty years ago, people would have called it fiction. The challenge of the realist novelist in 2026 is to find the quiet normality inside the chaos.
 
•       Non-Polarising AI Fiction: Lunzer deliberately avoided writing a book that slams Meta, or that is obviously pro- or anti-AI. He calls it non-polarised. In Sike, some characters love the AI therapy app, some refuse to use it. No one is obviously right. The book’s thesis — insofar as it has one — is that the interesting questions about AI are not the ones about whether it’s good or bad, but the ones that arise once you’ve stopped arguing about that and started living with it.
 
•       The Economics of Writing: Trenches, Not Glamour: Lunzer has a day job — AI researcher at Sony. Sike was his first published novel, not his first written. Before it: a travel narrative about the Japanese restaurant industry that went nowhere, and a novel about a global pandemic finished in early 2020 and overtaken by COVID before any publisher would touch it. His verdict on the publishing world: not glamorous. A lot of books. A lot of writers. Not much money except for a few. He got an advance. Most debut novelists don’t earn it back. The lesson he draws from Norman Mailer: writing a good novel is like learning to play the piano well. It just takes time.
 
About the Guest
 
Fred Lunzer is an AI researcher at Sony and the author of Sike: A Novel (Celadon Books, 2024; paperback 2026). He was born in London and lives in West Sussex, England.
 
References:
 
•       Sike: A Novel by Fred Lunzer (Celadon Books, 2024; paperback 2026).
 
•       Kazuo Ishiguro, Klara and the Sun — the key comparison text referenced in the interview.
 
•       William Gibson — two quotes referenced: “The future is already here, just unevenly distributed”; and the observation about reality catching up with fiction.
 
About Keen On America
 
Nobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen. In Keen On America, Andrew brings his pointed Transatlantic wit to making sense of the United States — hosting daily interviews about the history and future of this now venerable Republic. With nearly 2,900 episodes since the show launched on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting.
 
Website
Substack
YouTube
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
 
Chapters:

“Vaccine hesitancy in the U.S. should be understood as religious expression — not as the product of scientific misinformation. These debates have been proxies for existential concerns about justice and morality.” — Kira Ganga Kieffer
 
Are anti-vaxxers simply bizarre anti-science crazies egged on by conspiracists like RFK Jr? For Kira Ganga Kieffer, author of Unvaccinated Under God, what she calls “vaccine hesitancy” in America is actually a more complicated and prescient affair.
 
The prevailing narrative — that vaccine-hesitant people lack scientific facts or serve their own individual agendas — misunderstands what’s actually happening. Kieffer’s argument is that vaccine hesitancy is best understood as a kind of religiosity. Not in the narrow context of church doctrine, but in the broader sense of meaning-making, moral reasoning, and an intensely individualist relationship with the body that is deeply rooted in American evangelical and alternative-spiritual tradition.
 
This hesitancy, Kieffer shows, is not new. It has been present since the smallpox vaccine in the eighteenth century. What recurs across very different eras and very different communities is a set of metaphysical rather than scientific concerns expressed in the language of wellness, purity, and bodily sovereignty.
 
The most interesting political implication of Kieffer’s argument is that the same hyperindividualistic anti-modern instinct behind vaccine hesitancy also drives the wellness movement, the rejection of AI, and the political coalition that coalesced around RFK Jr. She sees this as a broad and growing constituency that neither party has fully understood nor spoken to. Rather than crazies, today’s anti-vaxxers might offer a window onto tomorrow’s American politics.
 
Five Takeaways
 
•       Vaccine Hesitancy Is Moral Meaning-Making, Not Ignorance: The dominant public health framing: vaccine-hesitant people lack scientific knowledge. Kieffer’s reframe: they are engaged in profound moral reasoning about the body, purity, parental responsibility, and the relationship between the individual and the state. The parent who fears the MMR vaccine is not asking a scientific question. They are asking: if I consent to this intervention and my child is harmed, am I responsible? That is a theological question — about guilt, intention, and moral agency — dressed in the language of health.
 
•       Evangelical Hyperindividualism Is the Root: Kieffer’s structural argument: American evangelical Christianity is, at its core, an individualist proposition. You are saved by your personal choices. This translates directly into the wellness culture’s logic of bodily salvation: you are saved from illness, aging, and death by your personal choices about diet, supplements, and vaccines. The individual body becomes the site of spiritual as well as physical salvation. This hyperindividualism is very American — and very old. It predates the wellness movement and will outlast it.
 
•       Vaccine Hesitancy Has Been Present Since the Eighteenth Century: Kieffer’s most important historical corrective: vaccine hesitancy did not begin with COVID, with MMR, or with the anti-vaccine movement of the 1990s. It has been present since the smallpox inoculations of colonial Massachusetts. What recurs across very different eras is not the same people or the same science — it’s the same core concerns: bodily purity, parental moral responsibility, and distrust of external authority over the body. Each generation clothes these concerns in the available language. Today it is wellness. Earlier it was religious freedom.
 
•       RFK Jr.: Evangelical Crusader or Wellness Influencer? RFK Jr. shares many characteristics of the evangelical crusader — a sense of special mission, a narrative of persecution, a world divided into the awakened and the deceived. But Kieffer is careful not to put words in his mouth. What she observes: in his crusade for wellness and his critique of organised medicine, he channels the same instincts she traces throughout the book. His coalition is now showing signs of disillusionment — followers who believed he was a true believer are finding that political power complicates purity. They are looking for someone else.
 
•       The Anti-Modern Instinct Will Shape American Politics: The same hyperindividualist, anti-modern instinct that drives vaccine hesitancy also drives the rejection of AI, the wellness movement’s critique of pharmaceutical medicine, and the political formations that coalesced around RFK Jr. Kieffer sees a broad and growing constituency that packages distrust of modernity in spiritual terms: what is essentially good is nature, humanity, the unmediated body. Neither party has fully understood or spoken to this constituency. As skepticism about AI and hypertechnology grows, Kieffer expects it to become more politically significant, not less.
 
About the Guest
 
Kira Ganga Kieffer is a scholar of American religions, history, culture, and politics. She holds a PhD in Religious Studies from Boston University and is Visiting Assistant Professor of Religious Studies at Fairfield University. She is the author of Unvaccinated Under God: Religion and Vaccine Hesitancy in Modern America (Princeton University Press, May 19, 2026). She lives in Westport, Connecticut.
 
References:
 
•       Unvaccinated Under God: Religion and Vaccine Hesitancy in Modern America by Kira Ganga Kieffer (Princeton University Press, May 19, 2026).
 
•       Matthew Avery Sutton, Chosen Land: How Christianity Made America and Americans Remade Christianity — referenced in the opening; the preceding KOA episode on American religion.
 
•       Episode 2913: David Ost on Red Pill Politics — the companion episode on the anti-modern political impulse that Kieffer’s book helps explain.
 
About Keen On America
 
Nobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen. In Keen On America, Andrew brings his pointed Transatlantic wit to making sense of the United States — hosting daily interviews about the history and future of this now venerable Republic. With nearly 2,900 episodes since the show launched on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting.
 
Website
Substack
YouTube
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
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