Keen On America

Andrew Keen
Keen On America
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  • Keen On America

    From the Muckers to the Mullahs: Christopher Clark on the Lessons of History

    05/03/2026 | 51 min
    “I don’t think we’re sleepwalking, because people have striven to be as thoughtful as possible. In some ways, they’ve been too thoughtful. We’re paralysed, in fact, by our risk awareness.” — Christopher Clark

    It’s 1830 in East Prussia. The city of Königsberg still bathed in the amber glow of the late Enlightenment—at least in the minds of people who’d never been there. But that glow, it goes without saying, is illusionary. The greatest of all Königsberg citizens, the illustrious 18th century philosopher Immanuel Kant is dead. Napoleon’s shattered army limped west back through the city two decades earlier after its failed invasion of Russia. The place had slipped into a sad provinciality, living off 18th century nostalgia. And then two Lutheran preachers, so-called “Muckers”, get accused of running a sex cult.
    Christopher Clark—Regius Professor of History at Cambridge, author of the brilliant The Sleepwalkers and Revolutionary Spring—has been brooding on this story for thirty years. His short new book, A Scandal in Königsberg, is a Prussian microhistory with global ambition. The scandal, he says, was entirely fabricated: no sexual transgressions ever occurred. The two Muckers were convicted, stripped (so to speak) of office, and imprisoned, then exonerated on appeal – giving this case more historical significance than a mere sex scandal.
    What made them targets? They were evangelical in a city that prized Kantian rationalism. They followed a dead mystic who believed creation was born from two cosmic spheres—fire and water—which sounded like dangerously mystical in the scientific age of steam power. And the lead preacher, Johann Ebel, committed the unforgivable sin of listening to women confess their unhappy marriages. In a pre-Freudian central Europe, Ebel became the confidant the men of Königsberg couldn’t abide.
    And then there’s Iran — far from 19th century East Prussia, but on all of our minds right now. At the end of our conversation, I couldn’t resist asking Clark if he thinks we are sleepwalking into another catastrophic world war. He doesn’t think so. The problem in 1914 was a failure of imagination, he says. Today, Clark argues, we’re actually paralysed by a fear of risk. The Iran invasion is certainly stress testing the international system. But the one thing most people agree on, Clark notes with characteristic dryness, is that nobody much regrets any damage done to the regime of the Mullahs. Even if, as he warns, we still don’t know whether decision to invade Iran was smart or reckless. The Mullahs, at least, aren’t quite Muckers.
     
    Five Takeaways

    •       This Was a Scandal Without a Transgression: Most scandals expose something real. The Mucker scandal was different: the sexual allegations were entirely invented. Two clergymen were stripped of office, fined, and imprisoned—then exonerated on appeal when a sharp young lawyer proved the charges were fabrications. The process of invention, Clark argues, is more interesting than any transgression could have been.
    •       Steam Was the AI of the 1830s: The two preachers at the center of the scandal were followers of a dead mystic who believed creation was born from two cosmic spheres—fire and water. In the age of steam, that sounded like science. Königsbergers only saw their first steam engine in the 1820s. New technology makes old ideas feel prophetic—a pattern we might recognise.
    •       The Preacher Women Loved: Johann Ebel attracted women from the best families of Königsberg because he listened to them. There were no couples counsellors, no psychoanalysts—only clergymen. Ebel was non-judgmental about sexual life within marriage. The men around him found this intolerable. The scandal was driven not by what Ebel did, but by what he represented: a threat to patriarchal authority.
    •       We’re Not Sleepwalking—We’re Paralysed: Clark wrote the book on how Europe sleepwalked into 1914. He doesn’t think the analogy holds today. The problem in 1914 was a failure of imagination—nobody could see the other side’s perspective. Today we’re hyper-aware of risk, especially nuclear risk. If anything, we’re too thoughtful—paralysed by what we know rather than blind to what we don’t.
    •       Iran and the Crumple Zone: The invasion of Iran is testing the edges of the international system. Clark notes that both Putin and the US-Israel alliance have chosen targets without nuclear weapons—probing the crumple zone rather than the core. The danger is an unintentional transition to nuclear exchange. And we still don’t know whether the decision to strike Iran was smart or reckless.
     
    About the Guest

    Christopher Clark is Regius Professor of History at the University of Cambridge and a fellow of St Catharine’s College. He is the author of The Sleepwalkers: How Europe Went to War in 1914, Revolutionary Spring: Fighting for a New World, 1848–1849, Iron Kingdom, Time and Power, and the new book A Scandal in Königsberg. He was knighted in 2015 for services to Anglo-German relations.
    References

    Books and references mentioned:

    •       The Sleepwalkers: How Europe Went to War in 1914 by Christopher Clark
    •       Revolutionary Spring: Fighting for a New World, 1848–1849 by Christopher Clark
    •       Immanuel Kant (1724–1804) and the Enlightenment heritage of Königsberg
    •       Leonhard Euler and the Seven Bridges of Königsberg—the birth of modern topology
    •       The Coming Storm by Odd Arne Westad—referenced in the closing discussion on sleepwalking into war
    About Keen On America

    Nobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen. In Keen On America, Andrew brings his pointed Transatlantic wit to making sense of the United States—hosting daily interviews about the history and future of this now venerable Republic. With nearly 2,800 episodes since the show launched on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting.
    Website

    Substack
  • Keen On America

    How To Fix Big Med: Halle Tecco and Robin Blackstone on American Healthcare and its Discontents

    04/03/2026 | 1 h 7 min
    “We should all be able to look at the numbers and agree that this is not sustainable and that whatever we’ve been doing is not working. Democrats have had their chance, and Republicans have had their chance, and it’s only gotten worse.” — Halle Tecco
    Warren Buffett called America’s healthcare costs “a hungry tapeworm on the American economy.” That tapeworm now devours nearly a fifth of the nation’s GDP—and the patient, as always, is on the table. We dedicate today’s show to this most perennial of all America’s problems, with two guests and two new books that approach the tragi-comedy from different angles.
    Self-styled innovation wonk Halle Tecco—founder of Rock Health, investor in over fifty digital health companies, professor at Columbia Business School—argues in Massively Better Healthcare that the system is both excessively public and excessively private, a Kafkaesque bureaucracy in which verticalized health plans now own the PBMs, the pharmacies, and increasingly the doctors. The result is monopoly medicine on a scale that would have appalled the original trust-busters.
    This is ultimately an antitrust story. As we’ve discussed on the show with Tim Wu, Biden’s chief antitrust enforcer, the concentration of corporate power is the great unfinished business of American democracy. Tecco makes the case that Big Med is where the trust busters should go next after Big Tech. UnitedHealth is now one of the largest employers of doctors in the country. So it wasn’t exactly shocking when the UnitedHealth CEO was assassinated two years ago. The system isn’t broken, Tecco suggests. It’s working exactly as designed—just not for patients.
    Surgeon Robin Blackstone, MD, author of Doctor AI: Reimagining Health. Rebuilding Trust. Delivering Health 4.0, joins us in the second half of the show to offer a view from the front lines. After 30 years as a surgeon, Blackstone confirms everything Tecco diagnoses—and adds a chilling detail of her own: the system is priced entirely for fixing illness, not preventing it. Her prescription is a “triangle of trust” between patient, physician, and AI—with the patient finally owning their own data.
    Both agree on one thing: every dollar spent on public health saves $14.30 in medical and societal costs. We are all already paying for all the waste. We just need to fix Big Med. But who’s going to do it? Tecco says that America is ready for another round of Obamacare politics. But I’m not so sure.
     
    Five Takeaways

    •       Healthcare Is a Tale of Two Civilizations: If you’re wealthy, you go to UCSF and get the best care in the world. If you’re not, you’re one of the 100 million Americans without a regular primary care provider. Healthcare debt is the number one cause of bankruptcy. A person earning $30,000 in a rural county can expect to live a full decade less than someone earning $100,000 in an affluent suburb.
    •       The Real Winners Are Monopoly Medicine: Verticalized health plans now own the PBMs, the pharmacies, and increasingly the providers. The ACA’s profit cap forced them to grow the pie instead of getting more efficient. United is now one of the largest employers of doctors in the country. Independent pharmacies are closing at the rate of one per day. Rite Aid is bankrupt—the only major chain not owned by a health plan.
    •       Every $1 in Public Health Saves $14.30: We’re already paying for the crisis—in emergency room visits, lost productivity, and disability. We just need to move the safety net upstream. Public health is the only part of the system designed for prevention, yet its share of total health spending has dropped 25% in two decades. The economic case is overwhelming. The political will is not.
    •       AI Could Break the Information Asymmetry: Patients are already using ChatGPT to diagnose themselves—and sometimes it’s saving their lives. One woman caught her own pneumonia because her doctor couldn’t see her for a week. But some doctors want to keep the paternalism: one AI tool built on medical journals is restricted to clinicians only because making it available to patients would “piss off the doctors.”
    •       The System Is Priced for Rescue, Not Health: Everything is loaded to the moment your gallbladder goes bad or your heart gets a blockage. Prevention doesn’t get paid for. Both guests agree: we need a massive re-pricing that rewards keeping people healthy, not just treating them when they’re sick. That means paying doctors to prevent strokes, not just to fix them.
     
    About the Guests

    Halle Tecco is the founder of the venture fund Rock Health and an investor in more than fifty digital health companies. She is an adjunct professor at Columbia Business School and a course director at Harvard Medical School. Her new book is Massively Better Healthcare: The Innovator’s Guide to Tackling Healthcare’s Biggest Challenges (Columbia University Press).
    Robin Blackstone, MD, is a physician, health systems architect, and founder of Blackstone Health. A surgeon by training with 30 years of clinical experience, she is the author of Doctor AI: Reimagining Health. Rebuilding Trust. Delivering Health 4.0.
    References

    Previous Keen On episodes and authors mentioned:

    •       Robert Pearl on how AI will be monetized in the healthcare industry

    •       Tim Wu on the extractive economics of platform capitalism

    •       Zeke Emanuel on which country has the world’s best healthcare

    •       Warren Buffett on healthcare costs as “a hungry tapeworm on the American economy”
    About Keen On America

    Nobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen. In Keen On America, Andrew brings his pointed Transatlantic wit to making sense of the United States—hosting daily interviews about the history and future of this now venerable Republic. With nearly 2,800 episodes since the show launched on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting.
    Website

    Substack

    YouTube

    Apple Podcasts
  • Keen On America

    The Coming Storm: Odd Arne Westad Asks If We're On the Brink of World War Three

    03/03/2026 | 41 min
    “If we let things continue in the direction that they are taking now, I think it is more likely than not that we will end up in some kind of Great Power war within the foreseeable future.” — Arne Westad

    This conversation was recorded before the invasion of Iran, which makes what you are about to hear even more chilling. In his new book, The Coming Storm: Power, Conflict, and Warnings from History, Yale historian Arne Westad warns that the structural parallels between our multipolar 2020s and the world before the First World War are too striking to ignore—and he names the Middle East as one of the flashpoints that could spark a much broader conflagration.
    Westad argues that the structural parallels between our multipolar 2020s and the world before the First World War are “striking.” A dominant power (USA) withdrawing from the international system it created. Rising inequality and globalization backlash. New technologies that speed up time and shrink the window for decision-making. A rising Great Power—China—that, like Wilhelmine Germany, simply cannot stop growing. And a declining empire—Russia—that, like Austria-Hungary, has quarrels on every border and an alliance with the rising power next door.
    The cast of characters, Westad warns, is also uncomfortably familiar. Trump is Joseph Chamberlain—the British conservative who turned his party against the free trade system it had championed. Putin’s Russia is Austria-Hungary: an empire in long-term decline that acted in 1914 because it believed Germany would back it up. And nuclear weapons? Before 1914, people wrote long books about how new military technologies made war unthinkable. We are taking refuge in that same bad logic today.
    The difference, Westad insists, is that we know how 1914 ended. We have international institutions built to prevent it. And we still have time—but not much, he warns—to forge the kind of Great Power compromise that could pull us back from the brink. Whether we will is another question entirely. Especially given our current historical amnesia. So might Archduke Ferdinand be Ayatollah Ali Khamenei this time around? Stay tuned. It’s squeaky bum time once again in world history.
     
    Five Takeaways

    •       We’re Living in a Pre-1914 Moment: A multipolar world. Rising inequality. Globalization backlash. New technologies that speed up time and reduce the window for decision-making. A dominant power withdrawing from the international system it created. The structural parallels between the early 20th century and the 2020s are, in Westad’s word, “striking.”
    •       China Is the New Germany: A rapidly rising Great Power that can’t stop growing, generating dissonance in an established international system. As the British told the Germans: “If you could just stop growing, little Hans, all would be fine and dandy.” That’s exactly what China cannot do. And it takes two to tango on compromise.
    •       Russia Is the New Austria-Hungary: An empire in long-term decline with quarrels on every border, allied to the most rapidly rising Great Power next to it. Austria acted in 1914 because they believed Germany would back them up. The parallel to the China-Russia relationship today is uncomfortably close.
    •       Trump Is Joseph Chamberlain: The British conservative who turned his party against the free trade system it had championed. Chamberlain never made it to prime minister, but he came close and reshaped his party in ways no one foresaw—exactly what Trump has done to the Republicans.
    •       Nuclear Weapons May Not Save Us: Before 1914, people wrote long books about how new military technologies—poison gas, battleships, aerial bombardment—made war unthinkable. We are taking refuge in the same logic today. Westad is not so sure the deterrent fully holds anymore.
     
    About the Guest

    Odd Arne Westad is the Elihu Professor of History and Global Affairs at Yale University. He is the author of The Coming Storm: Power, Conflict, and Warnings from History as well as The Cold War: A World History, The Global Cold War (winner of the Bancroft Prize), and Restless Empire (winner of the Asia Society Book Award).
    References

    Books and authors mentioned:

    •       Christopher Clark, The Sleepwalkers, on how Europe stumbled into the First World War (previous Keen On guest)
    •       Philipp Blom, The Vertigo Years: Europe 1900–1914, on technology and cultural disruption before the war
    •       Paul Kennedy, on the rise of British-German antagonism and Great Power rivalry
    •       Margaret Atwood, The Handmaid’s Tale (referenced in the Sutton episode the previous day)
    About Keen On America

    Nobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen. In Keen On America, Andrew brings his pointed Transatlantic wit to making sense of the United States—hosting daily interviews about the history and future of this now venerable Republic. With nearly 2,800 episodes since the show launched on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting.
    Website

    Substack

    YouTube

    Apple Podcasts

    Spotify

     
    Chapters:
  • Keen On America

    Racism as Entertainment: Rhae Lynn Barnes on Darkology and American Culture

    03/03/2026 | 34 min
    “When you use humor to degrade people, you can get away with it—but you’re also doing something that’s completely devastating.” — Rhae Lynn Barnes

    Donald Trump’s recent retweet of Barack and Michelle Obama depicted as apes was dismissed by his supporters as “just a joke”—another example, they claimed, of liberals lacking a sense of humor. But Princeton historian Rhae Lynn Barnes argues that this kind of “humor” is anything but innocent. It draws on a centuries-long white supremacist tradition of dehumanization—one that stretches back to the origins of American mass entertainment itself.
    In her book, Darkology: Blackface and the American Way of Entertainment, Barnes traces how Blackface minstrelsy became the quintessential American cultural form—America’s first great entertainment export—shaping music, comedy, performance, and politics from the 19th century through the 20th. Barnes explains how P.T. Barnum helped popularize the grotesque “scientific” spectacle of Black people as the missing link in evolution, and how the Barnum model of hoax-driven mass media foreshadows Trump’s own relationship with controversy, “fake news,” and attention.
    Barnes argues that Blackface wasn’t merely a fringe theatrical practice. It was normalized—then institutionalized—through schools, churches, civic clubs, and even the federal government. The result was an intergenerational system for teaching white supremacy through catchy songs, jokes, and seemingly harmless performance.
    For Barnes, the most important chapter of the Darkology story is the Black resistance minstrelsy triggered—from Frederick Douglass’s campaign of dignified self-representation to NAACP organizers and Black veterans who fought to remove minstrel shows from schools and public life. Rather than anti-American, Barnes insists that confronting this censored cultural history is the patriotic duty of all Americans. That’s America’s defining story, she says. The pursuit of freedom—and the ongoing struggle to live up to it.
     
    Five Takeaways
    1. Racist Humor Has Deep Roots: What gets dismissed today as “just a joke” belongs to a centuries-old tradition of dehumanizing caricature that masked cruelty as entertainment.
    1. Blackface Was America’s Cultural Foundation: Minstrelsy shaped American comedy, music, performance—and even political campaigning. It was the quintessential American entertainment form.
    1. Barnum Invented the Spectacle Model: Hoax-driven media sensation fused with racial pseudo-science and spectacle long before modern political showmanship adopted the formula.
    1. White Supremacy Was Taught as Fun: Catchy songs, simple dances, and comic routines created an intergenerational system of racial socialization embedded in schools, churches, and civic clubs.
    1. Patriotism Requires Historical Honesty: Confronting this censored past strengthens democracy. America’s defining story is the pursuit of freedom—not the denial of injustice.
     
    About the Guest
    Rhae Lynn Barnes is a historian and professor at Princeton University. She is the author of Darkology: Blackface and the American Way of Entertainment.
     
    References
    Previous Keen On episodes mentioned:
    1. None
     
    About Keen On America
    Nobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen. In Keen On America, Andrew brings his pointed Transatlantic wit to making sense of the United States—hosting daily interviews about the history and future of this now venerable Republic. With nearly 2,800 episodes since the show launched on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting.
    Website
    Substack
    YouTube
    Apple Podcasts
    Spotify
     
    Chapters:

    (00:00) - Introduction

    (00:25) - Trump, race, and “just a joke”

    (01:31) - The long history behind the meme

    (02:30) - P.T. Barnum and the “What Is It?”

    (03:41) - Barnum, hoaxes, and Trump’s media instinct

    (05:39) - Blackface as America’s signature entertainment

    (07:34) - When “minstrelsy” goes mainstream

    (09:50) - Black responses: Douglass to Ragtime

    (12:28) - Veterans, schools, and the NAACP fightback

    (17:54) - Presidents, power, and “Whiteology”

    (19:50) - Humor as an intergenerational weapon

    (21:20) - Immigration and learning “whiteness”

    (22:30) - Is American history defined by white supremacy?

    (24:00) - The pursuit of freedom—and confronting the past

    (28:18) - Why this history still matters now

    (31:11) - Gerald Ford and the politics of Blackface

    (32:56) - Closing thoughts and goodbye
  • Keen On America

    A Chosen Land for a Chosen People? Matthew Avery Sutton on How Christianity Made America and America Remade Christianity

    02/03/2026 | 38 min
    “If you disestablish Christianity, then Christian leaders need to make Christianity a consumer product. They need to give the American people something they want.” — Matthew Avery Sutton

    Over the years, Keen On has done many shows on the relationship between the United States and organized religion. Daniel Williams argued that smart people still believe in God. Jim Wallis warned that a false white gospel is threatening America. But we’ve never quite done a show on Christianity as “the thing in itself”—the force that made America what it is, for better and for worse. That’s what this conversation is about.
    Historian Matthew Avery Sutton’s new book, Chosen Land: How Christianity Made America and Americans Remade Christianity, is a sweeping argument that Christianity is not just part of the American story—it is the American story. The founders created a godless Constitution not out of principle but pragmatism: they couldn’t pick a winning denomination. The unintended consequence was to open the floodgates. Powerful Protestant groups seized even more power, building an unofficial establishment that shaped everything from westward expansion to the Civil War to the rise of the religious right.
    Sutton’s most provocative insight is that disestablishment turned Christianity into a consumer product. Forced to compete for adherents against entertainment, sports, and media, American churches became entrepreneurial, technologically savvy, and relentlessly current—reinventing themselves every generation. That’s what sets American Christianity apart from the rest of the Western world. It also helps explain Trump: a president who uses Christianity in a “crass, overt, and hypocritical” way, but who is doing something that generations before him built the infrastructure to enable. Whether this is Christianity’s last gasp or the prelude to another great revival, Sutton says, nobody knows. But the air we breathe in America is Christian air, and this book explains how it got that way.
     
    Five Takeaways

    •       The Godless Constitution Backfired: The founders couldn’t pick a winning denomination, so they disestablished religion. It was pragmatic, not ideological. But this opened the floodgates. The Christians who already had the most power—Methodists, Baptists, Episcopalians, Presbyterians—seized even more, creating an unofficial Protestant establishment that determined who was in and who was out.
    •       Christianity Became a Consumer Product: Disestablishment forced churches to compete for adherents. They had to be aggressive, entrepreneurial, current—competing with entertainment, sports, and media. They became masters of new technologies and communication, reinventing Christianity every generation. That’s what sets American Christianity apart from the rest of the world: an unintended consequence of the First Amendment.
    •       The Civil War Was Christians Killing Christians: Presbyterians killing Presbyterians, Methodists killing Methodists. It exposed the fragility of the effort to build a Christian utopia when you can’t settle the question of slavery. The Confederates actually wrote God and Jesus Christ into their constitution—they believed the Union had gone off the rails because its Constitution was too godless.
    •       The Liberationists Are the Heroes: Indigenous preachers who saw Jesus as liberator, Black Christians, gay rights activists in the 1960s and 1970s, Barack Obama. There have always been alternative visions of Christianity in America. Sutton’s heroes are those who see Jesus as a radical figure who wants to overturn hierarchies and bring equality.
    •       This May Be Christianity’s Last Gasp—Or Not: Just under two-thirds of Americans now identify as Christian—a historic low. Trump’s hypocrisy is driving young people away. In anointing Trump as their savior, the religious right may have hammered the final nail into their coffin. But every time scholars predict secularization, America has a revival. Nobody knows what’s next.
     
    About the Guest

    Matthew Avery Sutton is the Claudius O. and Mary Johnson Distinguished Professor and chair of the Department of History at Washington State University. He is the author of Chosen Land: How Christianity Made America and Americans Remade Christianity as well as American Apocalypse and Double Crossed, and a recipient of a Guggenheim fellowship.
    References

    Previous Keen On episodes mentioned:

    •       Daniel Williams on why smart people still believe in God
    •       Jim Wallis on the false white gospel and faith and justice
    •       Margaret Atwood on The Handmaid’s Tale
    About Keen On America

    Nobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen. In Keen On America, Andrew brings his pointed Transatlantic wit to making sense of the United States—hosting daily interviews about the history and future of this now venerable Republic. With nearly 2,800 episodes since the show launched on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting.
    Website

    Substack

    YouTube

    Apple Podcasts

    Spotify

     
    Chapters:

    (00:00) - Introduction: Christianity as "the thing in itself"

    (02:11) - Is this really a surprise?

    (04:05) - Which Christianity? Questions of power

    (06:36) - The founders and the godless Constitution

    (08:55) - Was it a coup?

    (11:15) - Jacksonian democracy and revivalism

    (12:56) - Colonizing the West and Native Americans

    (16:03) - What does evangelical actually mean?

    (17:31) - The Civil War as a religious war

    (21:05) - Max Weber and Christianity as consumer product

    (28:02) - Margaret Atwood and The Handmaid’s Tale

    (30:17) - Peter Thiel and the Antichrist

    (36:31) - Is this Christianity’s last gasp?

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Acerca de Keen On America

Nobody asks sharper or more impertinent questions than Andrew Keen. In KEEN ON, Andrew cross-examines the world’s smartest people on politics, economics, history, the environment, and tech. If you want to make sense of our complex world, check out the daily questions and the answers on KEEN ON. Named as one of the "100 most connected men" by GQ magazine, Andrew Keen is amongst the world's best-known technology and politics broadcasters and commentators. In addition to presenting KEEN ON, he is the host of the long-running show How To Fix Democracy and the author of four critically acclaimed books about the future, including the international bestselling CULT OF THE AMATEUR. Keen On is free to listen to and will remain so. If you want to stay up-to-date on new episodes and support the show, please subscribe to Andrew Keen’s Substack. Paid subscribers will soon be able to access exclusive content from our new series Keen On America – keenon.substack.com
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