Unchained

CME and ICE want regulators to rein in Hyperliquid, which delivers 24/7 derivatives markets that incumbents can't match. Can it be brought onshore?

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CME Group and Intercontinental Exchange have asked the CFTC to regulate Hyperliquid, the offshore perpetuals exchange that has rapidly become one of the largest derivatives venues in the world. The incumbents argue that price discovery is migrating to unregulated territory. Hyperliquid argues that its onchain transparency makes it less susceptible to manipulation, not more. 

Walt Lukken, president and CEO of the Futures Industry Association, and Chris Perkins, CEO of 250 Digital Asset Management, sit down with Laura Shin to work through the options: come onshore and get the licenses, stay offshore and keep growing, or further decentralize until there is no entity left to regulate. The answer may reshape how global derivatives markets are built for the next decade.

Host:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:


Walt Lukken | President & CEO, Futures Industry Association


Chris Perkins⁠ | CEO, 250 Digital Asset Management

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The repo market is $16 trillion globally and most people have never heard of it — until the plumbing breaks. Craig Burchell of FalconX and Matteo Pandolfi of Pareto explain how it works and why bringing it on-chain is the next big unlock for DeFi.

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The repo market is $16 trillion globally and it is, as Craig Burchell puts it, the oil that makes everything go. It is also almost entirely absent from on-chain finance — and that gap is creating real problems for RWA liquidity, stablecoin swap desks, and DeFi protocols trying to manage redemption queues. Steve Ehrlich sits down with Craig Burchell, head of lending at FalconX, and Matteo Pandolfi, CEO of on-chain credit infrastructure provider Pareto, to map exactly how repo works, what broke in 2019, why it translates extremely well into onchain finance. Matteo puts a $1 trillion figure on where on-chain repo gets in five years. Craig gives you one reason it gets there and one very honest reason it might not.

Host:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Steve Ehrlich, Head of Research at SharpLink and Host of Bits + Bips: The Interview - https://x.com/Steven_Ehrlich

Guest:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Craig Burchell — Head of Lending, FalconX; previously Head of Lending at Membrane Finance. @_CraigBirchall


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matteo Pandolfi — CEO & Co-Founder, Pareto (on-chain credit infrastructure). @pan_teo_

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Coinbase just became the official USDC treasury deployer on Hyperliquid. Alex Weseley of Artemis explains how this boosts Hyperliquid’s annual revenue by 25%.

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The morning this episode was recorded, Coinbase announced it was acquiring the USDH brand and becoming the official USDC treasury deployer on Hyperliquid — a deal with $150 million in annual revenue implications for a platform that previously earned nothing from its $5 billion USDC float.

Alex Weseley, institutional data lead at Artemis Analytics, walks through the math on the HYPE price move, explains why the deal had to be bilateral between Circle and Coinbase, lays out his $300 billion Coinbase thesis built on X402 and agentic commerce, and takes on the question Laura's been asking all week: is the Circle–Coinbase relationship heading for divorce?

Host:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:


⁠Alex Weseley — Institutional Data Lead, Artemis Analytics

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Anthropic is voiding secondary market trades. Who gets hurt — WhatsApp scammers, Forge buyers, or the founders? Plus: why continuous synthetic pricing is coming for every pre-IPO company.

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Anthropic and OpenAI are moving to void secondary market trades — and Kain, Tay, and Luca think that's only going to work if they're serious about it, which means a lawsuit is probably coming.

This week on Uneasy Money they trace the full anatomy of the pre-IPO SPV fraud wave, explain why synthetic perpetual markets will eventually price every in-demand private company continuously whether founders want it or not, and dig into the latest AI hacks. Tay breaks down how attackers are now using local on-device Gemini APIs to construct malware on the fly, and Kain shares the story of an agent that caught a slow-drain attack in 90 seconds that humans missed for 12 hours.

Luca explains why Circle's Arc token is a brilliant move for Circle equity holders even if it changes nothing for ETH or Solana. Plus: the Aave/Kelp court update and why the Gerstein lawyers' argument that every victim needs to show up in court is fundamentally incompatible with how onchain recovery works.

Hosts:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Kain Warwick⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Founder of Infinex and Synthetix


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Taylor Monahan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Security Expert


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Luca Netz⁠⁠⁠⁠, CEO of Pudgy Penguins

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As a new CLARITY Act draft dropped, KK, Vy, and guest Josh Riezman of GSR give their passage odds and explain the one developer protection provision that matters most.

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A new draft of the CLARITY Act just landed — all 300-plus pages of it — and Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, TuongVy Le, and guest Josh Riezman of GSR didn't wait to dig in. 

On this episode they break down the specific developer protection provision in the Blockchain Regulatory Certainty Act that introduces a specific intent standard for charging developers, debate passage odds, and explain why Circle releasing a token as a public company signals a real shift in how the SEC thinks about the security/token distinction. 

They also unpack Chair Atkins' remarks at the SEC's AI+ Expo — a speech Vy argues shows the SEC and Congress are now in lockstep on modernizing securities regulation for on-chain infrastructure — and why, for the first time, that infrastructure includes vaults.

Hosts:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at StarkWare. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges.


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TuongVy Le⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Veda

Guest:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh Riezman — Chief Legal and Strategy Officer, GSR

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