RIMScast

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.
 
In this episode, Justin interviews Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall about working with Spencer Educational Foundation. They discuss experiences outside the classroom, including mentoring, conferences, and responsible communication with industry professionals. They discuss the importance of participating actively in conferences, not just sitting there. Lawanda shares some of the gaps she sees between students' preparation and the readiness employers will expect from them. She explains how coaching can prepare them for entering the risk management workplace. Lawanda encourages RIMS chapters to give the mic to students so they can understand the importance of their voice.

Listen for wisdom on listening without judgment and communicating responsibly.
 
Key Takeaways:
[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.
[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest is Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall. She is a risk management student mentor. She is going to talk about how she is helping to guide the next generation of risk management professionals. But first…
[:45] RIMS-CRMP! RIMS Certification Week will be held from September 21st through the 25th. A link to the week's events is on this episode's show notes, including three free webinars. The week is a global celebration of the RIMS Certified Risk Management Professional certification.
[1:02] It is a virtual event for you to learn about the certification, how it can strengthen your career and organization, and understand how the RIMS-CRMP is helping shape the future of risk management. A link to Certification Week is in the show notes, or find it at RIMS.org/Webinars.
[1:20] On September 9th, the Classroom to Career series concludes. Join experienced risk professionals for an engaging discussion about what it's like to build a career in the field of risk management. This session is complimentary for members and nonmembers.
[1:38] Webinars: On September 17th, AXA XL returns to present the session, "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity, and Resilience."
[1:49] On October 1st, Brown and Brown will make their RIMS Webinar debut with "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think About Now."
[2:00] Global Risk Consultants will return on October 8th. Their topic will be announced soon.
[2:06] On October 15th, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session, "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight."
[2:15] Origami Risk will return on October 29th with a topic that will be announced soon.
[2:20] On November 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session, "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics." Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to register.
[2:30] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!
[2:48] The Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala will be held on September 17th at the newly renovated Waldorf Astoria in New York City. Visit SpencerEd.org and the link in this episode's show notes. 
[3:05] On with the Show! I mentioned Spencer just now because one of our favorite Risk Managers on Campus is rejoining us here on RIMScast. I'm talking about Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall. She is the CEO of Intelligent Intentions.
[3:21] We will talk about the habits, mindsets, and professional skills that are consistently distinguishing students who are making lasting impressions on recruiters and hiring managers, from those who need to sharpen their skills.
[3:34] Also, some of the trends she is seeing among risk students, habits that they need to develop, and some that they need to break. We're going to have a lot of fun! Let's get to it!
[3:44] Interview! Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall, welcome back to RIMScast!
[4:09] Lawanda says students preparing for a risk career need a menu of options. The next step would be aligning their appetite to the options, having the courage to create something that may not be on the menu, and having the courage to ask for off-menu options.
[4:31] Lawanda says, as we navigate this industry, emerging technologies, and emerging risks, wrapping our minds around companies that don't exist yet and may come to exist, students look to the future, understanding that sometimes the options are not yet on the menu.
[4:57] Lawanda encourages them to keep an open mind, keep a creative posture, and have the courage to ask, what are they not seeing on the menu that could also be an option, or how they can co-create an option aligned with their interests but also what the industry needs from them.
[5:45] Lawanda and Justin agree that it is a heavy lift for students. Lawanda says students nowadays have such a broad reference that we didn't have, and that puts them in the position to be more creative and thoughtful about the future.
[5:57] Lawanda says, tech change is happening much more rapidly for students than it did for us. That gives them a different posture for looking into the future. There's new technology every year. Lawanda says, we didn't replace our cell phones every year. We didn't have cell phones.
[6:21] When we got cell phones, we weren't replacing them every year. Now, students are almost expected to update their technology annually. That's indicative of how they feel about the future, changes, and evolution. They have an accelerated understanding of the possibility of change. 
[6:40] Lawanda says social media plays into it, where everybody has the latest and the greatest, and they think that they need to have the most updated thing. Lawanda says she gets anxious every time there's an update. Will she have to figure it out all over again? Chances are, yes.
[7:43] Lawanda says students embrace that change. They look forward to it, and they expect it. That gives them a different mindset around forward thinking.
[8:05] For experiential learning, Lawanda recommends coaching, attending conferences, and making sure students understand responsible communication with industry professionals. If you're not responsible and thoughtful about how you communicate, it can backfire.
[8:24] Lawanda says she coaches students before conferences. She helps them understand how to maximize that moment, and not just be sitting there or standing there like a wallflower. She wants them to maximize the moment in whatever way they can.
[8:43] Lawanda does coaching. She makes sure they attend conferences, not just the big ones, but also local events that are hosted by professional organizations, including RIMS. Students need coaching, conferences, and responsible communication with industry professionals.
[9:18] Justin comments that attending a large conference and speaking to people takes a certain degree of confidence. Justin asks if being in school during COVID prevented young people from picking up social cues and networking cues.
[10:00] Lawanda thinks that young people's social connections were declining before COVID due to social media. Students aren't communicating with each other. They text or use social media as armor to make them feel more comfortable and confident in their communication. 
[10:22] Face-to-face interaction is awkward because they don't practice it amongst themselves or amongst the community. Lawanda says COVID amplified it, but it wasn't the beginning or the cause of it.
[10:38] Social media continues to create that challenge because students are comfortable on their phones and engaging in that space. When students show up, the confidence and courage don't translate from social media to the real world.
[11:01] Lawanda says students need to understand social etiquette and multi-generational communication and connection, the things we were taught because we didn't have a phone: you have to make eye contact, speak up so people can hear you; things we take for granted.
[12:11] Lawanda says she's very curious. She is intrigued by students, and she listens to them. She wants to hear what they have to say. She doesn't have to agree. She doesn't sit in a place of judgment or offense. If you don't listen to them, they are not willing to listen to you.
[12:46] From listening to students, Lawanda gains an understanding of their language so she can use their language to talk to them. It also shows her where their deficiencies are, so she can fill those gaps and help them understand how to take the next step toward their objectives.
[13:19] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information.
[13:34] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.
[13:51] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information.
[14:08] Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.
[14:19] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026.
[14:32] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st!
[14:42] RIMS members can exclusively register by September 4th for the best rate. And get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.
[15:02] Let's Return to Our Interview with Lawanda Hall!
[15:19] When Lawanda works with students, she starts with the end in mind. What are their objectives? What are they trying to accomplish? This generation is very focused on getting things done. They're go-getters. Impact and results are what propel them.
[15:37] They may be stopped, like any human being, by not having the confidence or by fear of what people will think. Lawanda starts with the end in mind by focusing on getting it done. She coaches them through the process and gives them the benefit of her perspective.
[15:53] Lawanda reminds them that everybody they talk to are human beings, too. They're imperfect human beings. She tells them, they're here to listen to you because you have a perspective they're interested in. It's going to work out. It's a conversation. You're not on trial.
[16:14] Just think about the objective and keep it in mind to push through.
[16:49] Lawanda says students want immediate impact, as far as the next step or thing, and instant feedback, but not necessarily instant completion. If they have a big goal, or big things to accomplish, it's not going to happen in a moment.
[17:09] They want instant feedback. They don't want to be told they will figure it out later. Do they follow up? They want to know that this step is complete to get ready to go to the next step. Lawanda says that is realistic, and it accelerates what they're trying to accomplish. 
[17:36] Justin says that his daughter zones out over context when she asks for help with her homework. She just wants the instant answer. That's the future workforce of the industry.
[18:23] Lawanda says the students don't value context as much as earlier generations. Our responsibility as a generation is to help them learn how to think. Critical thinking is a dying art. Lawanda challenges them on how to think things through.
[18:42] If they ask a question, Lawanda may ask them another question to help them think through it, and walk them through the thinking process, versus just giving them an answer. Also, she may use a reference that they have in their world.
[19:03] Lawanda has godchildren who are young enough to keep her fresh with what's popular. Lawanda likes to use a reference that's familiar to students, to pull them into the thinking game; thinking through a process. Just asking and getting the answer is not transformative.
[19:36] Justin says we don't want them always asking their phones for the answers. Lawanda says that flattens their thinking. It's important that we call them up to be critical thinkers.
[19:50] One More Quick Break! The Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala 2026 will be held on September 17th in New York City at the Waldorf Astoria. This year's honorees are two of our recent guests, Sierra Signorelli of Zurich and Marya Propis of RT Specialty.
[20:14] A link to the Gala is in this episode's show notes.
[20:18] The Spencer Educational Foundation's Internship Grant applications opened on August 15th and will close on October 15th. A link to the Internship Grants page is in this episode's show notes. Visit SpencerEd.org for more information.
[20:39] Let's Conclude Our Interview with Lawanda Hall!
[21:16] Lawanda says there is a communication gap between generations. That's not new. Every generation has that gap of understanding, based on where they sit. The socio-emotional gap is new and growing, created partly by the helicopter parenting, everybody-gets-a-trophy approach.
[21:42] Lawanda says people who are entering the workforce are looking to work and contribute to make a living. People who are hiring are looking for that, too. They're looking for a good work ethic. The disconnect is in the how. The work they do hasn't changed as much as how they do it.
[22:09] Lawanda has heard of people bringing their parents to work to advocate on their behalf because they don't have the courage to have the conversation with their boss. She has heard of this generation bringing their parents into interviews, because they're not sure what to do.
[22:50] Lawanda leans into her curiosity and asks, How did we get here? Why are students not courageous enough or able to do these things on their own in their early 20s? She has questions of parents and questions of students, and the educational institutions? What are we not doing?
[23:21] Lawanda says we have co-created this. We can't just put it on the students. They didn't raise themselves. They're not in a silo. We have to look at the entire environment and ask, Who contributed, how, and why?
[23:40] Lawanda continues, Why are we here where we don't have adults who have the courage to show up in the way that they have in generations past? Justin displays his shock at the scenario. Lawanda doesn't know if the parents volunteer or if the students ask them to go.
[24:39] Lawanda wants to examine that construct and ask what's going on here. Parents have gone from coaching to coddling. Lawanda says that's a big contributor to students' inability to sit as an adult with other adults, have courageous conversations, and show up with confidence.
[25:08] Lawanda says if she had asked one of her parents to go to an interview with her, they would have laughed and told her she was crazy. They would not have entertained that. Why are parents doing it? These children did not raise themselves.
[25:24] Lawanda says coaching is very important. When she coaches students for an hour, she can see the shift in their understanding. They're getting information, agency, and authority over their being that they didn't have before she talked to them.
[25:40] Lawanda says, for some reason, there are parents who are not handing over agency and authority to students at the time that they need to, so you have 25- and 30-year-old teenagers who don't understand how to adult in the workforce. That is a big disconnect.
[26:05] Lawanda says students are smart and capable of doing the work. How they show up for work, and the socio-emotional disconnect, is one of the biggest challenges for this generation of students and employees. It feels like babysitting. A business is not a day-care.
[26:29] Lawanda says, you want them to come in, do work, and contribute, without having to feel like you need a whole team of Social Workers in HR to make sure that employees are OK. That's counterproductive and antithetical to adulting and what you expect from an adult.
[27:35] Lawanda says judgment and criticism create more distance. Our goal is not to create more distance, but to close the gap, embrace them, bring them forward, and call them up into their power, into their authority, and hand over the agency to them, so that they understand.
[27:48] It's not that they can't do it. They haven't been given permission to do it. They lack social opportunities in their everyday life, the things we took for granted, like going outside and playing kickball and hanging out with other kids.
[28:06] You learn so much in that space. Your confidence grows, your courage grows, your problem-solving skills, and your thinking skills; all these things are taking place. These students aren't getting that.
[28:17] They're in their room on their phones, scrolling, hearing opinions, giving opinions, being judged, judging, and not socializing. Justin says, it's all noise; it's not constructive. There's a difference between controlled chaos and chaos. Justin will not sit in on his kid's job interviews.
[28:40] Lawanda says it starts before job interviews. At some point, you hand over the agency and say, you handle that on your own and then come back and tell me how it worked out. If you need me to come, I will, but you do it first, and let's see how it works out.
[29:27] In restaurants, Justin makes sure that his children deal with the server. They hear and speak, and they know what they want. He doesn't speak for them.
[29:43] Lawanda says that when you speak for your children forever, you never hand them their agency. You teach them that their voice is not valuable, that their voice doesn't matter, and that they don't have to think or speak up for themselves. That's not healthy evolution.
[30:40] Lawanda says Spencer Educational Foundation is amazing. They do more than write checks. They embrace experiences for students. They give them opportunities to engage in industry exposure. They are great at holding folks accountable for how they spend the money.
[31:08] Spencer Educational Foundation makes sure their dollars have wings, that evolution and growth are happening, and whatever the intention is for the money, that it is happening within the organizations and institutions they support.
[31:26] Lawanda says this creates accountability and an environment of respect, generation after generation. Lawanda is happy to be part of the Spencer family. She also encourages others to be part of the Spencer family.
[31:51] Lawanda says Spencer Educational Foundation is a place that operates with amazing integrity; she knows it will be around for a long time, just based on how they do business; not just what they do, but also how they do it.
[32:07] Lawanda says, Spencer Educational Foundation is a beautiful investment of not just dollars, but also understanding, and a beautiful culture of accountability.
[32:24] Lawanda is in Atlanta, Georgia. Justin mentions that RIMS has a very active chapter in Atlanta. Justin asks Lawanda what she would hope every RIMS chapter listening today would do to better support students and strengthen the next generation of risk professionals, 
[32:48] Lawanda says, it's simple, but it's a big impact: Give the mic to the students. Lawanda has been in RIMS since she was in college. One thing the Atlanta chapter did was to have a session where students would do a case study on a topic and present it to the professionals.
[33:12] Lawanda says every year, students had an opportunity to present their case study. When Lawanda was in school, they presented on TRIA because it was new. The professionals wanted to know more about it, so the students worked with professors to understand it and prepare it.
[34:01] Lawanda says, We were able to present that to them and add value to their experiences, and also add a tremendous amount of confidence that encouraged the students to know they were valuable to the professionals, and the professionals were valuable to the students.
[34:14] Lawanda says we have to be open to allowing ourselves to learn from the students and value their voice. When we value their voice, it calls them to understand the importance of their voice and having agency over their voice. That's one thing chapters can do to help students.
[34:54] Justin is glad Lawanda brought up the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA), because next week's guest is former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski, who was instrumental in helping Congress understand the importance of TRIA in its earliest stages.
[35:08] Next week we are going to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the September 11th  terrorist attacks, here on RIMScast with her.
[35:22] Lawanda says in 25 years, she went from being mentored to being a mentor; Impact does not come in a one-size-fits-all package. You can have impact in a five-minute conversation and give them the opportunity to learn from your missteps or your mistakes in the industry.
[35:50] You can have a longer relationship as a mentor, where you do check-ins and touchpoints, and kind of coach and cultivate, and help someone to understand what their possibilities are in different segments of their career.
[36:08] Lawanda says she has understood that just because things are packaged a certain way doesn't mean that's the only packaging it can exist in. Micromentoring is valuable because not everyone has the capacity to take on a mentor for a year or six months.
[36:34] Lawanda says if you encounter somebody, and spend three to five minutes with them, and give them the benefit of a lesson that you've learned, it can be a seed that will blossom beautifully along the way. Understand that impact exists in a variety of packages.
[36:56] Justin says, It has been such a delight to see you! I hope to see you again at RISKWORLD 2027 in New Orleans. Lawanda says she loves New Orleans and looks forward to being in that space for some good, productive meetings, and some really good food.
[37:24] Lawanda, we appreciate all you do for our next generation of risk professionals. Your affiliation with Spencer is always valued. I look forward to seeing you in April!
[37:50] Special thanks again to Lawanda Hall for joining us here on RIMScast! A link to her prior RIMScast appearance is in this episode's show notes. She is one of our esteemed Risk Managers on Campus through the Spencer Educational Foundation's program.
[38:05] The deadline for the Spencer Educational Foundation's Risk Manager on Campus Grant has passed, but I've put up a link so you can plan for 2027.
[38:13] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.
[38:31] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.
[38:47] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.
[39:01] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.
[39:13] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!
 
Links:
"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 1" | Sept 1 | Complimentary for all
"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept 9 | Complimentary for all
Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026
ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026
RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All
RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.
RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Sponsorship Opportunities Available
RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 |
RISKWORLD 2027 Registration | RIMS members can lock in 2026 rates now through Sept. 4
RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau.
The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center
RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management
Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.
RIMS Now
RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!
RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council
RIMS-CRMP Stories
RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy
RIMScast on YouTube!
RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available
Sponsor RIMScast — Sales@RIMS.org
Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall — Intelligent Intentions

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:
Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule
See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops
 
Upcoming RIMS Webinars:
RIMS.org/Webinars
"Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity and Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL | Sept. 17, 2026
RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22-24 | Complimentary For All
"The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Be Thinking About Now" | Sponsored by Brown & Brown | Oct. 1, 2026
"Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026
"Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026
 
Related RIMScast Episodes:
"Opening Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau"
"Choosing the Challenge with Johnell Holly"
"A Menu of Risk Options with Elle Michell Hall" (2023)
 
Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:
"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before a Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)
"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company
"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL
"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL
"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant
"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent
"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant
"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL
"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company
"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich
"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich
"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog
"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor
"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog
"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant
 
RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:
RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!
RIMS Virtual Workshops
On-Demand Webinars
RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)
RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy
RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center
RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!
 
RIMS Events, Education, and Services:
RIMS Risk Maturity Model®
 
Sponsor RIMScast: Contact sales@rims.org or pd@rims.org for more information.
 
Want to Learn More?
Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
 
Have a question or suggestion? Email: Content@rims.org.
 
Join the Conversation!
Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.
 
About our guest:
Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall, CEO, Intelligent Intentions
Risk Manager on Campus
 
Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.
 
In this episode, Justin interviews Cari Stinebower about sanctions as an enterprise risk management issue. They discuss the holistic view of the maritime space and enterprise risk. They cover aspects of the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA) and how insurance companies, brokers, and reinsurers work with the U.S. Government to mitigate terrorism risk.
 
Listen for advice on keeping your organization compliant with respect to sanctions and terrorism risk.
 
Key Takeaways:
[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.
[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will discuss geopolitical risk, sanctions, and TRIA with Cari Stinebower, a partner in the Washington, D.C. office of Steptoe. But first…
[:42] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. RIMS will partner with PARIMA for the RIMS-CRMP on September 1st and 2nd for a two-day virtual workshop. Registration links are in this episode's show notes.
[:55] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.
[1:10] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.
[1:24] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit RIMS.org/membership.
[1:34] Webinars: On September 17th, AXA XL returns to present the session, "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity, and Resilience."
[1:46] On October 1st, Brown and Brown will make their RIMS Webinar debut with "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think About Now." Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to register.
[1:59] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!
[2:17] On with the Show! Our guest today is Cari Stinebower. She is a partner at Steptoe in Washington, D.C., and a former U.S. Department of the Treasury and Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) Attorney-Adviser.
[2:32] Cari focuses her practice on regulatory risk where U.S. National Security and Foreign Policy objectives intersect with cross-border business.
[2:39] We will talk about fraud, money laundering detection, and cybersecurity, and how this can be connected to the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA).
[2:50] We'll also talk about how international sanctions can impact any organization, and why risk managers should be strategizing now, if they haven't already. There is so much to discuss!  Let's get to it!
[3:04] Interview! Cari Stinebower, welcome to RIMScast!
[3:24] Cari says she was at OFAC at an interesting time. She came in after a Hill job doing the campaign finance cleanup for the Democrats for three years, from 1996 to 1999.
[3:38] Cari says that OFAC sank their teeth into anti-money laundering and the detection of fraud and corruption. When Cari joined Treasury as an analyst within OFAC, they slotted her into a position focused on counter-narcotics work, and also on the Milošević tribunal.
[4:03] Cari says there was lots of work to do and not enough staff to do it. Everyone ot OFAC had then, and still has, multiple portfolios. Cari was splitting between Milošević and counter-narcotics work.
[4:20] Cari says she spent a lot of time in Colombia working with banks and the Colombian government on anti-money laundering, focused on the cartels. The drug dealers were very sophisticated and were spectacular at establishing front companies and money laundering.
[4:54] Cari says it was a very good lesson for what was to come through the counter-terrorism work. The Colombian narcotics traffickers and their front companies were light-years ahead on money laundering techniques and sanctions evasion.
[5:44] Cari says in Colombia, at that time, the narcotics traffickers were excellent businessmen. It was such a lucrative career that they had to find ways to wash the cash. They were buying agricultural businesses, tourism businesses, pharmacies; anything they could to launder cash.
[6:18] Cari says they could have been fabulous businessmen if they had gone legitimate. She says some of them tried.
[6:32] Cari says 9/11 happened, so the world changed overnight. Cari switched from a counter-narcotics focus to a counter-terrorism focus.
[6:44] They started chasing the money. Who was the source of the funds? Where was it going? Which financial institutions were involved? Were they doing it knowingly? Were they being used by governments? Were they being used by "charities"? How is it flowing?
[7:03] Cari says that became her focus at OFAC for the next five years after 0/11, before she hopped into the private sector.
[7:39] Justin asks about sanctions against nations. Cari says the old way Treasury used to do sanctions was by jurisdiction. A jurisdiction would be identified as prohibited, off-limits for U.S persons, meaning individuals and entities.
[8:01] Any funds, transactions, or contracts that came into the possession or control of the U.S. person or entity would, by operation of law, be blocked or frozen; the title remained with the sanctioned party, but the U.S. person or entity had to freeze it and report it to the Treasury.
[6:26] The original sanctions on Iran were jurisdictional, based on the government, based on persons located within the jurisdiction of Iran. The Department of the Treasury was aggressive in pursuing enforcement actions.
[8:44] Financial institutions were sanctioned with multi-million-dollar penalties. The world started to voluntarily comply. It was U.S. driven initially, but European financial institutions and some of the Emirati financial institutions got on board and complied with the sanctions.
[9:20] The Departments of the Treasury and Justice used a clause within the underlying statute for the Iran sanctions that allowed penalties to be imposed on non-U.S. financial institutions that were causing a U.S. bank to process transactions on behalf of the sanctioned party.
[9:43] That was the line of the European banking cases that came out. Cari says banks were penalized from 2005 through 2015, which pretty much swept in everyone.
[9:56] That was the modern buildout of the compliance program where the U.S. established it was applying its sanctions requirements not only to U.S. persons but to non-US. persons where they could also identify a nexus.
[10:12] The favorite nexus was the use of U.S. dollars through the clearing system. Sanctions exploded. It was identifying ways to reach non-U.S. parties through the use of dollars, servers located in the U.S., call centers, approvals, or whatever they could, as a hook to get U.S. nexus.
[10:51] Justin asks about sanctions against Russia, Iran, and North Korea. Cari says North Korea has sort of fallen off. There's a big focus on North Korea's use of forced labor. They've also been active in cyberspace and ransomware.
[11:20] Cari says we don't see North Korea as often as we see Iran, Russia, and, to a certain degree, Cuba. It depends on the administration. For a while, Venezuela was really hot, from an anti-corruption, anti-money-laundering perspective, rather than a sanctioned invasion.
[11:46] Justin speaks of the latest AML bill, passed in 2023. Cari says the big overhaul was under the Patriot Act, which updated and modernized the Bank Secrecy Act. It also updated and modernized the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA), OPEC's big statute.
[12:09] Cari says there have been updates since. When you hear M&A partners or private equity guys talking, they often refer back to the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act becomes this overarching term for updates to the AML laws and regulations.
[12:48] Cari says there has been a growing evolution of the anti-corruption, anti-bribery statutes, the anti-money-laundering statutes, the sanctions world, and the adjacents like the whistleblower protections and the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act.
[13:09] Cari says all of these components are part of this growing collective focus on upgrading U.S. Government abilities to protect against threats to national security and the economy.
[13:32] Justin says risk managers are accustomed to thinking about operational and financial risks, but sanctions can feel like a legal issue. Part of the problem is you may have a legal officer who is not a risk manager or a risk manager who is not a legal officer.
[13:48] Justin asks, When should sanctions become an Enterprise Risk Management issue? Cari says, looking at OFAC's enforcement actions, sanctions should always be an Enterprise Risk Management focus.
[14:04] It's very easy for the bad guys to take advantage of a business if it's siloed. The easiest way to detect a problem, whether it's financial sanctions evasion or exposure to corruption, is if the enterprise is looking holistically at its business, its counterparties, and its transactions.
[14:26] Cari says, when we're working with clients on building a global compliance policy or procedure, we keep telling them that it's better to have a holistic view of the business, customers, and geography.
[14:43] Not only geographic risk, customer risk, or service risk, but also across the regulatory schemes. If you have sanctions exposure somewhere in your enterprise, you're also likely going to have an anti-money-laundering issue, a corruption issue, and/or an export controls issue. 
[15:06] Cari says when you're building out compliance, you want to have a 1,000-foot view of the business units, your customers, your geographies, and the regulatory components, so that you can take advantage of what you may be seeing in one area. It's silos that cause the problems.
[15:26] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information.
[15:42] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.
[15:59] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information.
[16:16] Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.
[16:27] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026.
[16:40] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st!
[16:50] RIMS members can exclusively register by September 4th for the best rate. And get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.
[17:10] Let's Return to Our Interview with Cari Stinebower!
[17:26] Cari says an example of sanctions risk is Iranian oil or Venezuelan oil. Typically, the pattern is you have a Greek shipment manager under charter to deliver oil and gas to China. 
The Bill of Lading says the cargo is of Omani origin or Malaysian blend.
[18:08] It looks clean. They have all the sanctions exclusions language in the Charter Agreement; the insurers, the reinsurers, and the P&I quotes have all established that the vessel cannot carry Iranian cargo. The documents say it's Omani or Malaysian, and off you go.
[18:28] Then you get a call from the U.S. State Department or the Treasury Department saying you've got Iranian cargo on board. The U.S. Government typically knows that because they're using satellite tracking software. They know that the cargo was loaded by ship-to-ship transfer.
[18:58] If you go back through the satellite imagery, you can see that it's happened probably two or three times, and when the vessel called on the Omani port that was supposed to be the source of the cargo, it came in at the same draft as it left. Calling on the port was clearly a ruse.
[19:34] When you get to the financial payments, that's where you have the money laundering side, and you can see that the Omani seller of the cargo is just a front company with a brand new website, secretly run by the Revolutionary Guard.
[19:56] Cari says that when we start talking about the compliance policies and procedures, it's not good enough just to rely on the Bill of Lading. The expectation is that you're going to be doing something a little deeper.
[20:11] In 2019, the Department of Justice started to pursue a lot of ship owners and ship managers for carrying Iranian cargo. Sometimes it was Iranian cargo going to Venezuela or going to China.
[20:32] In a decent batch of those cases, the ship owners or ship managers would be contacted by the U.S. Government and agree that the Government was right and ask what they could do not to get sanctioned.
[20:51] Cari says there were a series of cases where the ships were brought to the U.S. and the cargo was sold by the U.S. Government, with the proceeds going to the Victims of Terrorism Fund, for parties who registered with the Special Master and were entitled to a pro rata share.
[21:20] That was the U.S. Government's solution to what to do with all this cargo that they can seize, and they had been seizing, under the Foreign Terrorist Organization Statute. We're now seeing the same focus on the narcotics trafficking cartels in Mexico, Brazil, and Venezuela.
[21:46] Cari says, You see the evolution of the U.S. Government's thinking over the years, how the Iranian oil cases are now relevant to countering narcotics trafficking caused by the cartels in South America.
[22:00] Justin asks about supply chain risk and sanctions-related risks companies may overlook when they evaluate suppliers. Cari says the supply chain, particularly when you're dealing with raw materials or manufacturers coming out of China, has been an issue for a long time.
[22:29] Cari says it's not difficult for a U.S. importer who's bringing in parts and components for widgets to know that their manufacturer or warehouse in China is who they say they are. That's easy enough.
[22:48] Where we see issues is when the Chinese manufacturer subcontracts to second or third parties, who ostensibly are also compliant, but it becomes difficult in a more opaque jurisdiction like China to do the tracing down to the actual mine or source of the raw materials.
[23:14] That leads up to the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act (UFLPA), which has forced companies to look at supply chains where there's a Chinese component, for several years.
[23:31] Where are the raw materials coming from? Do you know where all of the raw materials are coming from, or do you just know where some are? Under the UFLPA, companies were particularly focused on identifying those risks in China.
[23:50] Cari says, under the first Trump Administration, and under the Biden Administration, you started to see a lot of companies moving away from sole-sourcing goods from China, specifically because of that risk.
[24:02] The National Drug Control Strategy Report that came out in May 2026 is digging deep into supply chain issues.
[24:13] It says two things: first, that the U.S. Government needs to act as a whole. The Departments of Justice, Treasury, and Homeland Security need to work together on tackling supply chain issues and addressing where the gaps are.
[24:35] Supply chains are being exploited, not only by narcotics traffickers, but across the board.
[24:41] The report is also telling businesses that it's not enough to have an OFAC sanctions compliance program where you screen your counterparties against the SDN list.
[24:54] There's an expectation for businesses to go deeper, using analytics and AI, looking at their records, and knowing who the suppliers of their suppliers are.
[25:17] The expectation is for businesses to step up their game, but also for the U.S. Government to partner with businesses to figure out how to do that.
[25:35] Cari says we've also been telling other jurisdictions, like those in the Caribbean and South America, that this is a really good opportunity.
[26:44] The first Trump Administration, the Biden Administration, and the second Trump Administration have said to stop sole-sourcing in China. Let's near-shore and friend-shore, and let's bring business and infrastructure back to the Western Hemisphere.
[26:00] Cari says we're starting to see jurisdictions offer tax incentives for setting up manufacturing spaces, or finding ways to invest in the United States to bring back manufacturing.
[26:14] Cari says the big issue of late has been how to bring shipbuilding back to the United States. Is there a way to do it in Latin America without relying on China as the major shipyard? [26:29] Those issues are interesting because they trigger a series of other questions: cost of labor, sourcing raw materials, and more. It's a longer-term problem. If you're building out your supply chain nose-to-tail, it's going to require a more transparent jurisdiction than China.
[26:52] One more Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.
[27:11] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.
[27:26] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM. 
While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.
[27:44] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM.
[27:53] Let's return to our interview with Cari Stinebower!
[28:14] Justin asks if other countries sanction the United States or U.S. companies. Cari says it has become a new trend. The jurisdictions doing it are China, with the National Security Law; Russia, identifying Hostile Jurisdictions that have imposed sanctions against Russia.
[29:12] Cari says it's a quid pro quo. Ukraine has a sanctions program against entities that do business with Russia. Canada and Europe are well-known for their Blocking Statutes.
[29:48] They have Antidote Sanctions that prohibit their nationals from complying with the U.S.'s Cuba Sanctions. Those jurisdictions see the U.S. sanctions on Cuba as territorial. There is a quid pro quo.
[30:08] Sometimes it triggers conflict-of-law issues, and companies have to decide how and when they're going to comply with which set of sanctions.
[30:46] Cari says, if you don't have a holistic view of which jurisdictions you're operating in, and where your U.S. nationals are located, there's no way to build out a robust, comprehensive sanctions program.
[31:01] If you have a U.S. person located in or in a business position in Canada, you wouldn't want them dealing with the Canadian company's Cuba business. You need to know where they are located in advance so you can protect the U.S. person.
[31:27] Justin notes that RIMS is a global society. Canada is the second-largest RIMS membership base.
[31:40] Justin says there's so much due diligence to be done. You have to vet the company you're going to be doing business with and do your second- and third-tier supply chain risk management deep dive to make sure that everything is above board.
[32:02] Cari says there are many examples where the Canadian Government has aggressively stepped up its sanctions components. The Canadian sanctions on Russian targets may be more aggressive than the U.S. or EU sanctions on Russia.
[32:19] If you have a financial institution or insurance company based in Canada, but operating in the U.S. and the EU, because they're complying with the Canadian sanctions, they're blocking transactions that a U.S. party wouldn't have to block.
[32:44] You want to know what the entire web of sanctions regulations is before you figure out who your business parties are and how you're going to navigate something.
[32:55] Justin surmises that a small company without a dedicated risk professional would need to reach out to a company like Steptoe. Cari agrees; a lot of people will use a law firm and a consultant to build out their compliance programs or to do the risk analysis.
[33:13] Cari says, then they will either find someone in-house or outsource it to a consultant or a specialist to keep costs down.
[33:23]  Cari says, we also see this pop up in Mergers & Acquisitions. One of the things that is often difficult is that they will see the compliance function either as redundant or as a cost center, and not as a profit center.
[33:47] The guidance is always: Don't save costs by getting rid of your Compliance function, because it will cost you money in the long run. But often, that is what you will see.
[34:00] Justin brings up the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA), a legislative priority for RIMS. RIMS sends an External Affairs Team to Capitol Hill every year to talk about TRIA with their Representatives in Congress.
[34:19] Justin says RIMS helped lead the charge, over 20 years ago, to get TRIA passed into law.
[34:30] The nature of terrorism risk has evolved since TRIA's enactment. Justin asks how risk managers should be thinking about terrorism exposure today, compared to when the program was established.
[34:44] Cari says terrorism, like the narcotics traffickers, evolves. It's cash-intensive. There's more you can do now through technology, AI, cybersecurity, and cryptocurrency.
[35:01] You can sit completely offshore and wreak havoc on the electrical grid or a utilities provider, or a financial institution, through cyberattacks or cybercrimes. It can be crippling if terrorists go after the grid.
[35:28] Cari says we have seen an overlap between what could be a terrorist attack and what is more likely a ransomware grab, when they're going after smaller utilities located somewhere in the Midwest. That seems to be a trend.
[35:45] They're not always sophisticated. You don't always know who the counterparties are. Going back to the Drug Control Strategy report, the Government is saying that there has to be a holistic approach to ransomware and cyberattacks.
[36:03] A couple of years ago, the FBI and Homeland Security set up a task force to work with the utilities or other U.S. businesses that see themselves faced with a ransomware attack that is either just for the money or is something more nefarious.
[36:24] Cari says, if the question is, is it terrorism or is it something else, but the way you would attack it would be the same if you're the utilities manager; it doesn't matter if it's terrorism or cybercrime.
[36:48] You've got to work with law enforcement to protect your infrastructure, to figure out whether you're going to pay the ransom or not, so that you can protect your customers' data.
[37:02] It's up to the Government to figure out who the illicit party was. Is it a hacker group sitting in Russia? Is it a terrorist group? Why were they doing it, and how do you stop it from happening in the future?
[37:18] If you're the Business Manager or the Compliance Officer, you need to build in your risks, your risk mitigation strategies, redundancies, and backup servers that are not connected. The problem for you isn't: Is this a hacker or a terrorist doing this to me?
[37:53] Cari says there are many insurance working groups. We've worked with clients, some of these groups, and the U.S. Government to come up with language that makes sense. We see it in the context of Iran or Russia, or with respect to language for War Risk in the Strait of Hormuz.
[38:32] Cari says, The partnership between the insurers, reinsurers, brokers, and Government is pretty deep.
[38:41] These working groups have been around for a long time because insurers, brokers, and reinsurers need buy-in from the Government to get assurances that the language they're putting out there is enough to get them out of trouble if they're acting in good faith.
[39:00] Generally, everyone is, but you want that nod from the Government that what you've done is sufficient from the Government's perspective.
[39:37] Cari's advice to risk professionals in August 2026: The most important thing is that the risk professionals and the business units know and trust each other.
[39:47] Cari continues: A risk professional isn't going to be able to build out a compliance program that works unless they know what the business units are up to and what the business priorities are, and they have the trust of the business professionals.
[40:05] Some critics warn that you don't want the compliance person to become a captive of the business units, driven by profit rather than compliance. Cari says the business compliance person needs the business unit and the compliance unit to work hand in glove. She explains it.
[40:46] Cari says we've seen this a lot with all of these businesses jumping into the Venezuela market. There's a lot of business upside but also a lot of risk. It may not be that there's a sanctions risk, but the longer-term risks are the money-laundering and corruption risks.
[41:26] Cari asks what happens ten years from now? If you're a compliance officer, you need to understand the upside to the business, which is lots of profit, but when you're drafting contracts and working with the business unit, how are you mitigating the risk that's five or 10 years out?
[41:44] Cari says the only way you do that is if the compliance and business units have a certain amount of trust and respect for each other.
[41:57] Cari says the Compliance Officer is not always the Risk Manager. Some businesses will have it siloed; some will have someone embedded. In some cases, there's no compliance person. They throw it onto a legal officer, and the legal officer can be spread fairly thin.
[42:13] Cari says you can work through trade associations to understand industry risk. You can hire consultants. You can hire law firms. The benchmarking is incredibly important to understand not only the opportunity but also the appropriate risk.
[42:49] Justin says this has been one of the most informative RIMScasts we've had in a while. I'm so glad we got a chance to tackle this topic. Cari, thank you so much for joining us here on RIMScast!
[42:45] Special thanks again to Cari Stinebower of Steptoe for joining us here on RIMScast! A link to her LinkedIn profile is in this episode's show notes.
[42:58] I have links on this episode's show notes to other RIMS coverage on sanctions, geopolitical tensions, and related supply chain risk. Also visit RMMagazine.com.
[43:08] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.
[43:26] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.
[43:42] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.
[43:56] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.
[44:08] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!
 
Links:
Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026
ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026
RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All
RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.
RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Sponsorship Opportunities Available
RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 |
RISKWORLD 2027 Registration | RIMS members can lock in 2026 rates now through Sept. 4
RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau.
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RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management
Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.
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RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!
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RIMScast on YouTube!
RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available
Sponsor RIMScast — Sales@RIMS.org
Cari Stinebower — Biography page
Cari Stinebower on LinkedIn

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"Money Laundering Risks with Crystal Trout" (2025)
 
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About our guest:
Cari Stinebower, Partner, Steptoe
 
Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.
 
In this episode, Justin interviews Sophie Grégoire Trudeau about her closing keynote for the RIMS Canada Conference. Justin asks Sophie about her connection to risk managers or risk professionals. Sophie explains that all decision-makers are risk assessors. Justin and Sophie address leadership in incredibly high-profile environments and the qualities Sophie believes define strong leadership today, when people are facing uncertainty, competing priorities, or significant change. Sophie explores the window of tolerance.
 
Sophie explains how Canada is often viewed internationally as collaborative and consensus-driven, and the uniquely Canadian approaches to leadership, wellness, or community that she believes have value on the global stage. Sophie touches on her wellness practices, the importance of adaptability, and what adaptability is.
 
Listen for Sophie's single most important principle she would share with risk professionals.
 
Key Takeaways:
[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.
[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We are delighted to present an interview with one of Canada's national treasures, Sophie Grégoire Trudeau.
[:39] Sophie is an author and mental wellness advocate, and will be the closing keynote speaker at the RIMS Canada Conference on October 21st. There's so much to discuss! But first…
[:49] Plugs: This is the last call for educational content submissions for RISKWORLD 2027, which will be in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. The deadline for submissions is August 21st, just a few days from the launch of this episode.
[1:07] The submissions link is in this episode's show notes.
[1:10] RIMS-CRMP Workshop. On August 27th and 28th, RIMS President Manny Padilla will be leading the two-day, in-person workshop at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. A link to the registration is in this episode's show notes.
[1:30] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. RIMS will partner with PARIMA for the RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep on September 1st and 2nd. Registration links are in this episode's show notes.
[1:39] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.
[1:55] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.
[2:08] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit RIMS.org/membership.
[2:18] On October 1st, Brown and Brown will make their RIMS Webinar debut with "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think About Now." A link is in this episode's show notes.
[2:30] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!
[2:49] On with the Show! I will be joined by a co-host today. She is the RIMS Canada National Conference Committee Chair and RIMScast Canada host, Aaron Lukoni. Aaron and I both wanted to interview our guest today, so we are sharing hosting duties.
[3:08] We are amped up for this interview with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau. The RIMScast Canada video of this interview will be available this week at RIMS.org/Canada.
[3:18] Sophie is the author of Closer Together: Knowing Ourselves, Loving Each Other, a Number 1 bestseller featured in Audible Canada's Best of 2024 list. She is the former wife of Justin Trudeau, former Prime Minister of Canada.
[3:35] We are excited that she will be the closing keynote for the RIMS Canada Conference, which will be held from October 18th through the 21st in Quebec City. Register at RIMSCanadaConference.ca.
[3:46] Today we will get a preview of her keynote and her perspective on risk management. She will open our minds to something called the window of tolerance. Learn more about her at Sophiegregoiretrudeau.com. There's a lot of energy in the RIMScast studio today. Let's get to it!
[4:05] Interview! Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, welcome to RIMScast!
[4:11] Sophie says to everybody listening that she is so, so happy to be here. She comments on the saying that life is not a private affair. She expounds that we have so much to learn from one another. Conversations like these are about business but even more about humanity.
[4:38] Sophie says humanity will never be lost. Whatever we think that AI will do to our world, humanity will reign. We have to make sure we understand humanity to be able to manage it well.
[4:56] Sophie says the etymology of the word risk is uncertain. It comes from the Italian word risco, having to do with navigation dangers. But some historians say it comes from a Greek word meaning root, cliff, or hazard.
[5:47] Sophie says, finance, through history, has changed the word risk to mean not only facing danger, but also the uncertainty surrounding the outcome of a decision.
[6:00] Sophie says she has talked with popes, queens, kings, farmers, teachers, nurses, and others who don't fit the definition of only being in risk assessment.
[5:22] But human beings, whatever they do in life, have been dedicated to countering the true nature of our primal brain, which doesn't like uncertainty.
[6:35] Sophie has a lot of respect and reverence for risk management people, who do this as their daily jobs, because it means that you've got to be seeing the world as it is and not from your perspective. Sophie says she finds that's what the world needs these days.
[7:06] Justin had the chance to listen to Sophie on some other shows, such as the Aspen Institute last year, and a show called Can't Be Sensored. Justin is listening to Sophie's audiobook, and he comments that she does a lot of research.
[7:33] Sophie says she keeps herself grounded, as a teacher and coach, so whenever she gets on a stage, whether she's talking to 50 people or 10,000, she has always done her research and homework. As she ages, she finds the homework is paying off. She never takes it for granted. 
[8:24] Sophie says she was on the co-political path for almost 15 years. Assessing risk is all they do every day, and seeing how you can save the most vulnerable in every situation. When people see Sophie at events in high heels and a dress to mingle, that's not what politics is about at all.
[8:47] Sophie says politics is about serving each other, assessing risk, and making decisions with the most discernment, facts, and data, from a regulated state.
[9:00] Sophie says, if you look at the state of the world, so many leaders aren't well-regulated and aren't well-informed. When it comes to risk management, that is of absolute importance.
[9:16] Aaron asks Sophie what qualities define strong leadership in today's workforce and society, when facing uncertainty, competing priorities, and significant changes.
[9:34] Sophie says she is passionate about the answers to that question. Her life's devotion is studying the neuroscience behind personality. That's why she wrote Closer Together, to make it accessible to everybody, whether low-profile or high-profile.
[10:02] Sophie says what is really impressive in a true leader is the human capacity to see the world for what it is and not through who they are. That takes a lot of emotional regulation, emotional maturity, and a lot of work on one's inner world.
[10:17] Sophie introduces the concept of the window of tolerance. AI is coming at an incessant speed. Our brains are not ready for that speed.
[10:40] We're being bombarded with information and new situations at the high rate of efficiency of machines, and we're just trying to adapt. We're all in reaction mode.
[10:54] When we're in reaction mode, and we're not prepared for whatever risk is coming, we are brought back to our own window of tolerance. It's part of being a human being.
[11:17] Sophie says your first childhood bond of attachment, in your pre-verbal years, makes you the leader that you are today. From zero to two years old, you form a bond of attachment called the epistemic bond of trust.
[11:34] The epistemic bond of trust is the first bond of trust you build with another human being, the person who took care of you, and the outside world.
[11:44] It's a dance; a vocal, visual, earful dance, nervous system to nervous system, right brain to right brain, the hemisphere responsible for the emotional development of the human brain. That dance lasts from zero to two years.
[12:08] Sophie says it sets a tone in your nervous system. Did you have a parent who was present? What was the quality, the consistency, the presence, and the playfulness? What is the tone that it set in your nervous system as a child?
[12:27] You carry this in every single adult relationship that you'll ever have, including the ones with your employees or your colleagues.
[12:35] Sponsorships! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. RIMScast is proud of its longstanding relationships with AXA XL, Global Risk Consultants, Alliant, Zurich, and more.
[12:57] Links to many of these episodes are in the show notes. RIMScast sponsorships can be bundled with whitepapers and webinar sponsorships.
[13:05] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them!
[13:17] Reach out to Ted Donovan at TDonovan@RIMS.org or reach out to Sales at Sales@RIMS.org. Let's find the best opportunity for you and your organization.
[13:30] Let's Return to Our Dialog about Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau!
[13:38] Sophie says, when you're put in front of a decision where you have to weigh the risk, and when you know that there are risks implicated in the outcome, people in risk management and finance say there will be no revenue without risk, so you have to take risk. How do you assess it?
[14:02] Sophie says it comes back to your nervous system and your capacity to see the world as it is and not as you are.
[14:08] If your first childhood bond of attachment was insecure, anxious, or disorganized, you're not starting with a solid base of being able to adapt to unusual circumstances. Right now, we are living in abnormal circumstances.
[14:28] Sophie says we're pathologizing a lot of our conditions: from ADHD to so many other psychological conditions, but most experts will tell you we're not sick people; we're just trying to adapt the nervous system we were given to abnormal living circumstances.
[14:45] Sitting at a desk for 12 hours a day, not moving, eating poorly, or not sleeping well will affect our capacity to lead.
[14:55] Sophie says our window of tolerance is like a bell curve between an upper and a lower line. Your window of tolerance is within those two lines. Some people's bell curve is halfway between the two lines. Some people are more at the peak; some are more at the flat line.
[15:36] It depends on how you were able to construct your capacity to adapt to change from what you received in early childhood, from your experiences through childhood, and whether you know or not about your own trauma and suffering.
[15:51] Sophie says suffering is a normal part of human life. Trauma is what happens when we don't look efficiently at our suffering and when we don't know how to manage our emotions, whether you're a parent, a student, or a leader in a position where you have to take risks.
[16:15] Sophie says our window of tolerance is a good metaphor for how we assess risk and how we lead teams into risk, and how we can mitigate risk and the outcomes of risk. Sometimes we face bad situations. How do we adapt to that?
[16:37] Aaron mentions it's our emotional regulation. Sophie says, from the beginning to the grave, our capacity to emotionally regulate ourselves, especially in difficult situations, makes us courageous leaders or not.
[16:56] Sophie says, in this window of tolerance, we can insert a more precise marker for capacity to adapt, which is Heart Rate Variability (HRV). This is your capacity to go from a very stressful situation back to homeostasis, a balanced nervous system.
[17:13] Sophie asks, What are you presented with in your company? What are your clients asking for? How much risk are you assessing, and how can you take really difficult situations and come back to a regulated team, a regulated balance sheet, and a regulated vision for your enterprise?
[17:31] Sophie says, as much as we are at risk with technology, it is also an ally because it gives us facts and data, which we cannot push away. Science is on our side when it comes to leadership, because we understand the importance of regulation at every step.
[17:53] One More Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By contributing, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.
[18:13] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.
[18:27] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM. 
While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.
[18:46] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM. 
[18:54] Let's Return to Our Interview with RIMS Canada Conference Keynote Sophie Grégoire Trudeau!
[19:03] Justin asks Sophie for an example of a person she has met with a broad window of tolerance. Sophie says she is quite discerning when it comes to picking people like that.
[19:29] One man Sophie has been impressed with in his capacity to regulate emotionally, would be Barack Obama in his personality; his capacity to stay regulated in front of the obstacle.
[19:53] Sophie refers to what has been done in Canada in the past 15 years, and people who have sacrificed their families and have been so courageous in the face of uncertainty. 
[20:05] Sophie says Chancellor Angela Merkel from Germany is the type of woman who has a very stoic way of dealing with conflict.
[20:17] There are so many. There are a lot of people who have impressed Sophie who are not known to the public. She has also seen it in her home, including her former partner and colleagues. Sophie has a lot of respect for public servants.
[20:54] Sophie says, obviously, the Dalai Lama and Buddhist monks she has met and whom she admires.
[21:04] Sophie says discerning spirituality is wisdom from a place where you are in such deep service that every decision you make, even risk decisions, looks to a greater force that can guide us through its humanity, in cohesion and integrity, qualities that make a leader outstanding.
[21:54] Justin views Canada as a collaborative, consensus-driven nation. He asks Sophie if there are uniquely Canadian approaches to leadership, wellness, or community that have value on the global stage.
[22:11] Sophie says, Yes. She has seen it from the inside out. She had such a unique position. She says another great quality of a leader is staying close to people and not building walls between them. You come from a place of non-threat, so differences are not a threat but a plus.
[22:34] Sophie thinks that Canada sits on this basin of such talent and diversity that allows Canadians in their daily lives not to tolerate risk and difference but to accept it as part of their way of living. Sophie speaks of this on shows. Canada is not at risk of extremism.
[23:06] Sophie says Canada has a discerning social hand of wisdom. Canada counts on it. They need to keep feeding that hand. They can't take it for granted.
[23:26] Sophie mentions that Canada has diversity, has more women in the boardroom, and in the past decade, how many women have run in politics has changed, which has changed the landscape as well.
[23:41] Sophie says the data has proven that more women in governance, in the boardroom, and in politics means more empathy, more open leadership, and more inclusivity, and the world needs this now, on all levels. Canada is proud of this. Every day is another day to get better.
[24:03] Sophie says that all the best leaders she has spoken to, whether Olympic athletes or trainers, doctors, or risk assessment specialists, it's about every time you do well, you celebrate the small wins, but you always know you can do better.
[24:22] How is it that we can do better? How is it that we can adapt better and make everyone better at the same time? In co-politics, when we invest in the middle class, it's because we know the data shows that it lifts poverty up.
[24:40] Sophie says in a company, if you celebrate diversity, include people, celebrate the small wins, and elevate in your style of leadership, instead of dominating, you'll give yourself better chances to create a performing, cohesive team that can deal with great troubles.
[25:12] Justin says, Sophie, we are so excited to see you in Quebec on October 21st at 8:30 a.m. Sophie is a morning person.
[25:52] Aaron asks, If you could leave risk leaders around the world with one idea from Closer Together, that would help them build stronger organizations, not just stronger people, what would you hope that they're going to take away from that?
[26:05] Sophie says, Know yourself. Know yourself. Get to the core of who you are. Leave all the titles, accomplishments, and risks aside for a moment and go back to who you are and how you function.
[26:22] Sophie mentions the 7 Cs: Competence, Creativity, Courage, Communication, Coaching, knowing your inner Compass, and Citizenship. It starts by knowing who you are as a human being and becoming the best leader that you can be. Aaron thanks Sophie for that great advice.
[27:22] Special thanks again to Sophie Grégoire Trudeau for joining us here on RIMScast. Catch the video dialog on RIMScast Canada, which you can find at RIMS.org/canada. Of course, remember to register for the RIMS Canada Conference at RIMSCanadaConference.ca.
[27:40] We will see you in Quebec City from October 18th through 21st. 
[27:45] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.
[28:02] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.
[28:19] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.
[28:32] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.
[28:44] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!
 
Links:
RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Sponsorship Opportunities Available
RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the full video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau.
RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 | RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction nominations open through Aug. 21!
RISKWORLD 2027 Registration | RIMS members can lock in 2026 rates now through Sept. 4 | Education Content Submission Through Aug. 21.
RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All
Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026
ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026
RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.
The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center
RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management
Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.
RIMS Now
RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!
RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council
RIMS-CRMP Stories
RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy
RIMScast on YouTube!
RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available
Sponsor RIMScast — Sales@RIMS.org
https://sophiegregoiretrudeau.com/

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:
RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep Workshop — Live In NY — Aug 27‒28!
RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA | Sept 1‒2
Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule
See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:
RIMS.org/Webinars
"The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Be Thinking About Now" | Sponsored by Brown & Brown | Oct. 1, 2026
"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 1" | Sept. 1, 2026
"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept. 9, 2026
"Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal about Frequency, Severity, and Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL | Sept. 17, 2026
RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22‒24 | Complimentary For All
 
Related RIMScast Episodes:
"Distilling Risk and Resilience with Manjit K. Minhas"
"On Resilience with Amanda Lindhout"
"Emerging Risks and AMRAE's RMIS Panorama 2026 with François Beaume"
"Energy Efficiency, Mental Health Awareness, and Risk with Nick Quigley"
"Live from Calgary at the RIMS Canada Conference 2025"
 
Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:
"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)
"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company
"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL
"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL
"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant
"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent
"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant
"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL
"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company
"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich
"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich
"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog
"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor
"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog
"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant
 
RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:
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About our guest:
Sophie Grégoire Trudeau
Author. Keynote Speaker. Mental Health Advocate.
 
Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.
 
In this episode, Justin interviews RIMS SERMC Member Eric Lobser about his career path at Spire Inc. They discuss his start in Budget Analysis at Laclede Gas, which eventually became Spire Inc. He moved into Operations, Treasury, and then Strategic Planning, including Acquisitions. He continued his career as VP of Enterprise Risk Management. Eric shares how he grew into that position, using knowledge he had gained from all the departments he had worked with. He tells about his early presentations to the Board.

Eric explains what ERM means to him, and how ERM helps companies manage risks, including reputation, engage in opportunities, and make the resource allocation decisions that lead to success and mitigate failures.
 
Listen for Eric's idea to improve the ERM acronym.
 
Key Takeaways:
[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.
[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest is Eric Lobser. He was a practitioner in the natural gas sector for 35 years. We're going to get his ERM philosophies today. But first…
[:42] RIMS-CRMP Workshop. We are delighted to announce that on August 27th and 28th, RIMS President Manny Padilla will be leading the two-day in-person workshop at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. A link to the registration is in this episode's show notes.
[1:02] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. RIMS will partner with PARIMA for the RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep on September 1st and 2nd. Registration links are in this episode's show notes.
[1:13] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.
[1:28] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.
[1:41] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit RIMS.org/membership.
[1:51] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!
[2:10] On with the Show! We will take a deep dive into Enterprise Risk Management with Eric Lobser. Eric recently retired from a 35-year career in the natural gas sector. He remained with one company that eventually became Spire Energy.
[2:26] Eric is also a member of the RIMS Strategic and Enterprise Risk Management Council.
[2:32] We will discuss his career journey, how one role led to the next before settling on Enterprise Risk Management, and his philosophies on what makes ERM truly valuable and why the acronym could use an upgrade. Let's get to it!
[2:52] Interview! Eric Lobser, Welcome to RIMScast!
[3:17] Justin and Eric met last year during a webinar. Eric has a fascinating career. His entire career was at Spire. Originally, it was Laclede Gas Company. Then it became The Laclede Group, and then Spire. Eric's career was 35 years and some months long.
[3:53] Justin says that shows our audience that you can have a risk career at one company. You don't need to jump around. If you're doing well, if you're comfortable, if the company's treating you right, and you're doing a good job.
[4:10] Eric says the risk career came later in his life. It was the culmination of a lot of other things he did. He had a varied set of positions at Spire. Over time, it was multiple types of companies. As you go through CEOs, things change.
[4:31] Eric says he was there for about five CEOs and got to see many different sides of how business operates.
[4:49] Eric says he graduated from Boston College in 1990. It was a tough job market. He wanted a job on the East Coast, but it was an expensive place not to have a job. He went back home.
[5:08] His stepfather had a contact at the Laclede Gas Company. He interviewed, and they offered him a position, which he took. Within two weeks, he thought he would be crazy to stay at that company more than a couple of years. He thought it was odd they had a few computers.
[5:29] Eric came from a school with a library full of computers. You had to sign up to use them. It taught him to use his mind, and it instilled patience. Those elements have been valuable to Eric's career.
[6:06] Eric started as a budget analyst and did that for about a year and a half, in the corporate office in downtown St. Louis.
[6:33] Then he was fortunate to move to Operations to do the same sort of work with all the department heads to help them with their budgeting, to translate things from Operations into financial terms and get better relationships with the people who ran the business.
[6:53] Eric says he got to understand the business better from the view of the boots on the street.
[7:04] Justin asks if risk management and ERM came onto Eric's radar in August 2001, when he became the Managing Director for Strategic Planning and Corporate Development.
[7:18] Eric says that he had also worked with property insurance in Treasury. There's a big commodity risk at a natural gas company. There are also market risks and credit risks.
[7:33] Eric says Strategic Planning was new to The Laclede Group, taking the budget period and extending it out three years, rolling in strategy and planning.
[7:49] Eric helped them to develop software for business planning, custom-made from Access, to help support the Balance Scorecard they rolled out. It included something for Initiatives for making improvements, which were tied to Metrics. 
[8:11] There were Action Items. There was a section where you laid out your different risks and what you were doing to mitigate them. The Action Items often required support from other areas. The software would put that into their business plan so they could see it and collaborate.
[8:33] Eric says risk management and collaboration are hand-in-hand.
[9:09] Eric speaks of a change in leadership, where they went from mostly looking at operational excellence and continual improvement to a more external look at other businesses, at ways to diversify within the gas industry: storage, pipeline, E&P, and more.
[9:40] That was the beginning of the thought processes Eric would go through, looking at different businesses; what can go right with them, and what can go wrong.
[9:57] Part of modeling acquisitions is taking a look at those scenarios and looking for the probability of a downside, what that downside looks like, and what will drive it. What has to go right to have the best case? What does the base case look like? What are those probabilities?
[10:20] Eric says that was the beginning of understanding how risk and business go hand-in-hand. They can't have opportunity without risk. There's no reward without risk. Understanding that was an element of that job.
[10:39] Eric was fortunate to have a tremendous boss during that time who helped him gain critical thinking about how things operate.
[10:58] Eric says when they were looking at how other companies operate, they were companies within the gas industry, to stay within their knowledge base, and simplify their business, within the natural gas value chain, from wellhead to burner tip.
[11:30] They were looking at exploration & production, gathering & processing, pipelines, underground storage, down to uses for it, including compressed natural gas for vehicles and local distribution utilities. 
[11:58] Justin suggests that the 13-year period when Eric was in Strategic Planning and Corporate Development, holding several positions, was a key time in his career. Eric says yes, and it was his favorite period. He had gone to school for investment banking and acquisitions.
[12:42] Eric says, at the same time, it was a tremendous amount of work. He thought maybe it wasn't the best place to spend his lifetime because of the level of work and stress involved.
[13:04] Eric was married and raising a family, and that had to come into play, as well. He says while his wife was extremely patient with him during all those times, sometimes working around the clock, he felt it wasn't the right long-term opportunity for him.
[13:20] Eric says one of the things he learned when he was doing acquisitions was developing models for how utilities make money. Eric worked with people who did rate cases at the company, to understand what drove cash flow.
[13:47] In doing that, Eric learned how regulations work and how tariffs work. That led to asking himself, if this isn't the right career for me, taking a look at something next to it, which was regulatory and government affairs.
[14:27] Eric had already started to learn about it. Once he was in charge, he based it on Missouri regulations. The first acquisition was a company in Kansas City, Missouri.
[15:05] The second acquisition was Alagasco in Alabama, and that was a completely different type of ratemaking approach that was annual. They had a formal department. Eric was asked to develop something more formal for the entire company.
[15:21] Eric says then they acquired Energy South, which brought them into Mobile and also Mississippi, a third rate jurisdiction. There was a mountain of information to climb. His drive and thirst for knowledge helped him up the curve pretty quickly.
[15:53] Eric says relationships and the stuff between the lines are just as important as what you can read about and study.
[16:12] Eric says, pulling from his enterprise risk career, one of the impacts is not just financial, but reputation. Reputation is a huge element of rate setting. Your reputation precedes you to the commission that oversees rate case litigation and the parties to the case.
[16:47] The parties that are involved include industrials, AARP, low-income groups, an energy efficiency group, and other parties.
[17:01] Understanding where they're coming from, and what they're trying to achieve, and working towards something that gives all parties some of what they want, is a key element.
[17:18] If you were a bad operator; if you had a significant incident that showed you weren't a safe operator, or you weren't treating your customers well, then going into the rate case, people had their minds set that they wanted to give you not a rate increase but a rate reduction.
[17:40] The value of the relationships and the reputation, the stuff that is gray and in between the lines, is not just about what the numbers are but who you are as a business.
[17:56] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information.
[18:12] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.
[18:29] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. We will be in Quebec City to celebrate the 50th Live RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Advance registration is open now.
[18:45] Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information. Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.
[19:00] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is now open.
[19:10] Through August 21st, you can nominate a program for the RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction. If you know of an ERM Program that is award-worthy, we want to hear about it. A link to the nomination form is in this episode's show notes. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026.
[19:29] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! The call for session proposals is now live and will stay active through August 21st.
[19:44] RIMS members can exclusively register by September 4th for the best rate. And get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.
[20:04] Let's Return to Our Interview with Eric Lobser!
[20:31] Justin asks about compliance at a natural gas company. Eric says his career at a critical infrastructure utility delivering a relatively volatile product to people's homes was very safety-oriented with a lot of rules, regulations, and areas of compliance.
[21:04] The whole industry faced a need to replace some of its aging infrastructure. That started when Eric was in Treasury and trying to think about how they would afford all the replacements they were going through.
[21:22] It came again when Eric was in Regulatory, trying to understand the balance between safety and rates and what's best for the business and what's best for the customer.
[21:53] Compliance is not something you can decide to do a little bit or a lot. You have to meet at least the minimum standards. Spire was always at that point but also found the benefit of going beyond that, to deal with it a little bit more strategically.
[22:14] Spire was generally a group that looked at opportunities to do replacement in a way that overall was more cost-effective, exceeding requirements on their compliance. Compliance was an enterprise risk.
[22:34] Eric says it was not just making sure they were in compliance, but also what the cost of compliance is and what if people change their minds and all of a sudden want us to do this or that?
[22:53] Being a regulated utility, your rates are dependent on somebody deciding you deserve to have this.
[23:02] Compliance was more often not physical replacement but putting in another pipe beside the old pipe and terminating the old cast iron pipe that had degraded and become a safety issue.
[23:26] Spire always paid attention to where they were getting leaks or water potentially getting into the system and areas of geography that had similar types of risk.
[23:39] Spire took a strategic approach to look at the information they were getting and figure out where to go and do wholesale changes rather than responding to risks as they popped up.
[23:54] Eric says that was the approach where they took compliance and said if we do more, it probably can be better for us and better for the customer to take a better strategic approach.
[24:19] Eric says it's inconvenient and sometimes problematic for people when there are workers in the street. Part of Eric's career was dealing with claims and issues that can happen with construction. The construction was necessary to make sure the system was safe.
[24:53] Eric says the most prevalent claims were when they were doing excavation and hit something unmapped, like an underground dog fence or sprinkler system. To be cost-effective, they used reliable outside partners to replace these.
[26:44] Eric says that every year, when he was in Strategic Planning, he would help put on a two-day conference for the Board to review company strategy and present new ideas.
[27:01] Any time they found an acquisition opportunity that met the muster of the executives, they presented that to the Board.
[27:!3] Eric says the Board is extremely interested in rate cases, which are the heart and soul of a utility's business.
[27:28] Something Eric found helpful later in his career, doing regulatory work, was to pull together parties without overlapping interests, such as the Board and the Public Service Commission, to help them find agreement on why something was beneficial for the customers.
[28:58] Eric says, for the first time or two, presenting to the Board was frightening. He was fortunate enough not to be leading the presentations. He reported to officers who helped develop the business planning and strategy. They helped Eric work his way into bigger roles.
[29:32] Eric says when he became more involved in doing the modeling, one time he was called by the CEO to speak to the Board while he was on a family vacation. His wife reminds him of this. The Board was very interested in the upside case and downside case of a model scenario.
[30:31] Eric says in that phone call he had to give the Board a rigorous view of why they should spend $1.1 billion on this acquisition. While exciting, Eric says presenting to the Board was a very stressful part of the job. They're relying on things that he's saying to them.
[31:12] Eric says acquisitions have their own timeline and they develop however they want to. It's not like going to the grocery store to pick up something. When something pops, it pops, and it's all hands on deck. You don't stop until the job is done.
[31:35] One more Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.
[31:55] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.
[32:09] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM. 
While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.
[32:28] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM. 
[32:36] Let's Return to Our Interview with Eric Lobser!
[32:52] Eric says that it seems to him that if people viewed Enterprise Risk Management more as Enterprise Value Management, they would better understand that it's more about what you need to do to improve the value of your company.
[33:19] In Eric's Strategic Planning days in Corporate Acquisitions, he learned that Expected Value is about changing probabilities, not just the impact of those probabilities.
[33:32] Eric says Enterprise Risk Management does a great job of addressing both the likelihood and the impact of things going wrong and things going right. What you're building with ERM is value. You're adding to the value of the company.
[33:46] Eric thinks more people would engage. It would resonate with a lot of the corporate cultures to look at ERM as a way to build value for the company.
[34:08] Justin says that for almost eight years, Eric was the Spire VP of ERM. Justin asks if Eric was able to hit the ground running, going from Regulatory and Government Affairs into ERM.
[34:32] Eric says the position started with Insurance, and then Commodity Risk Management, other elements of the business that helped him up the learning curve. From Acquisitions, Regulatory, Operations, and Customer Service, Eric understood a lot about the business.
[34:55] Eric says having a couple of years when he was in charge of Spire's Insurance program, including Captive Management, where you retain risk instead of transferring it, was a great transition to eventually getting Enterprise Risk.
[35:31] Eric says he read every book he could get his hands on in the time he had. He noticed some of the things they were doing were based on ISO 31000. Eric read through ISO and COSO. COSO felt very intricate and detailed.
[36:10] Eric asked himself what the potential was that we were going to adopt something. The culture of the business manages the risk. ERM oversees how the business manages risk. Eric wanted to pick a framework that fit more with Spire's corporate culture.
[36:39] Eric says ISO 31000 is adjustable. He felt like it was a good fit. It was more about strategy and enterprise than Spire's focus had been. It was not just about what could go wrong and what they should be concerned about happening, but what must go right.
[37:22] Eric says that looped in what he learned in Strategy, what they have to do to be successful, and what could derail them from that. Spire transitioned a little bit less away from risks and more to strategic imperatives and what they had to do to achieve their strategic vision.
[38:02] Justin asks about ERM conferences and what makes a great ERM session. Eric says it's a practitioner who has lived through it with real-world experience on what works, what doesn't work, and why it didn't work.
[38:18] Eric says everything's specific to the company, so what works for one may not work for another. An experienced practitioner brings a level of credibility that is important. Eric wants a presenter who focuses on what helps a company be more successful in executing its strategy.
[38:41] Eric says a lot of presentations go into risk registers and software, but in the end, risk management is change management, with very complex systems. The presenter should speak to engaging the business, getting different areas to collaborate, and making better decisions.
[39:31] Eric says those decisions are about how you allocate resources. Resources are limited. You can't do everything, so you prioritize.
[39:41] ERM helps you to prioritize better, using a process of identification and assessment, to help you understand how important a risk is in relation to other risks, how soon it needs to be dealt with, and what level of mitigation and controls you already have in place.
[40:13] Eric says, ERM helps you determine if this risk is extremely well-managed and there are resources you can take away from it to put toward a risk that's less well-mitigated.
[40:22] Eric says a good ERM session presenter talks about how ERM helps a corporation make better decisions and effectuate those resource allocations that then help that company to be more successful. That's what ERM is about, and when somebody talks about that, it resonates.
[41:02] Eric says when he hears a concept that really resonates with him, he tries to pull those concepts together. He has used principles from the Enterprise Risk Oversight Committee.
[41:44] Justin says the Global ERM Award of Distinction call for submissions is open. You can send in those nominations now. RIMS Global ERM Award of Distinction nominations are open through Aug. 21!
[41:57] Justin asks Eric what makes an Enterprise Risk Management program award-worthy. Eric says some of it is going to be based on the eye of the beholder. Enterprise Risk should be customized to the culture. People are going to view what makes a great program differently.
[42:28] Eric says that the SERMC is looking for, with the diverse perspectives of the members, a program that is well-integrated into Strategic Planning, helps the business make decisions, and most importantly, helps it be more successful, with fewer downturns, than their competitors.
[43:09] Eric says the business manages risk. ERM can help oversee what they're looking at and turn its attention to important things, and help determine the best ways to mitigate or treat risk, or support what they are doing, so the strategy prevents threats from derailing the company.
[43:33] Eric says, in the end, a company that is consistently successful is probably the mark of a good Enterprise Risk Management program.
[43:51] Justin says, we're going to see you again on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio at the RIMS ERM Conference. You can get your nominations in now for the RIMS Global ERM Award of Distinction. We'll have a special awards ceremony, like we do every year.
[44:07] Eric, it has been such a pleasure to have you on RIMScast! I look forward to seeing you in Columbus.
[44:19] Special thanks again to Eric Lobser for joining us here on RIMScast. We appreciate him and all the great work he does for the RIMS SERMC. The call for nominations for the RIMS Global ERM Award of Distinction is open; a link is in this episode's show notes.
[44:36] There are specific attributes that will make a nomination truly award-worthy. Submit your nominations today!
[44:42] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.
[45:00] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.
[45:16] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.
[45:29] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.
[45:41] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!
 
Links:
RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 | RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction nominations open through Aug. 21!
RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All
Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026
RISKWORLD 2027 Registration | RIMS members can lock in 2026 rates now through Sept. 4 | Education Content Submission Through Aug. 21.
ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026
RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.
RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Advance Registration Open | Sponsorship Opportunities Available
The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center
RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management
Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.
RIMS Now
RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!
RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council
RIMS-CRMP Stories
RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live
RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy
RIMScast on YouTube!
RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available
Sponsor RIMScast — Sales@RIMS.org

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:
RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep Workshop — Live In NY — Aug 27‒28!
RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA | Sept 1‒2
Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule
See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:
RIMS.org/Webinars
"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 1" | Sept 1
"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept 9
RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22‒24 | Complimentary For All
 
Related RIMScast Episodes:
"Board Reporting and ERM in 2026 with Trisha Sqrow and Suzanne Christensen"
"The Future of Strategic Risk Management" with John Button
"Mid-Year Risk Roundup 2026 with Morgan O'Rourke and Hilary Tuttle"
"Emerging Risks and AMRAE's RMIS Panorama 2026 with François Beaume"
"Strategy and Change with Ward Ching and Aaron Olson"
 
Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:
"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)
"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company
"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL
"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL
"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant
"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent
"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant
"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL
"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company
"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich
"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich
"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog
"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor
"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog
"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant
 
RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:
RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!
RIMS Virtual Workshops
On-Demand Webinars
RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)
RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy
RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center
RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!
 
RIMS Events, Education, and Services:
RIMS Risk Maturity Model®
 
Sponsor RIMScast: Contact sales@rims.org or pd@rims.org for more information.
 
Want to Learn More?
Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
 
Have a question or suggestion? Email: Content@rims.org.
 
Join the Conversation!
Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.
 
About our guest:
Eric Lobser, SERMC Member
 
Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.
 
In this episode, Justin interviews APIW President Dawnmarie Black about her role at Amwins and her journey to get there, starting with clerical work in her father's insurance agency. Dawnmarie speaks about the great training program she received early in her career, being mentored, joining an association board, and growing her career through being mentored, networking, connecting, building relationships, being mentored, and leadership. She emphasizes communication and transparency as the basis of relationships.

Justin and Dawnmarie discuss upcoming trends in risk, recruiting talent, and retaining professionals with a culture of trust and development. Dawnmarie speaks of Amwins's innovative outreach to underrepresented children and HBCUs about the insurance industry. Finally, Dawnmarie focuses on her association work and the upcoming APIW 50th Anniversary Gala on November 3rd in NYC.


Listen for themes of communication, connection, and relationship building.
 
Key Takeaways:
[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.
[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will be joined today by Dawnmarie Black of Amwins. She is also the President of the Association of Professional Insurance Women (APIW). But first…
[:42] RIMS-CRMP Workshop. We are delighted to announce that on August 27th and 28th, RIMS President Manny Padilla will be leading the two-day in-person workshop at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. A link to the registration is in this episode's show notes.
[1:02] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. RIMS will partner with PARIMA for the RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep on September 1st and 2nd. Registration links are in this episode's show notes.
[1:12] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.
[1:28] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.
[1:41] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit RIMS.org/membership.
[1:51] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!
[2:08] On with the Show! Our guest today is Dawnmarie Black. She is the Senior Vice President and Client Relationship Manager at Amwins, and she is the President of the Association of Professional Insurance Women (APIW).
[2:26] We'll talk a bit about her career journey, what she believes it takes to attract and retain talent in insurance and risk management, and the interconnected risks that are on her radar. Let's get to it!
[2:39] Interview! Dawnmarie Black, Welcome to RIMScast!
[2:48] Justin says, you know Dawnmarie Black from Amwins, and she is also the President of the Association of Professional Insurance Women (APIW). Justin is wearing their pin.
[3:21] Dawnmarie is a Client Relationship Manager at Amwins. She builds relationships with retail trading partners. It's a strategic national, corporate relationship across the U.S.
[3:35] Dawnmarie works and collaborates with their market placement teams or carrier strategy teams and Amwins internal brokers.
[3:44] There's a lot of collaboration to ensure that Amwins brokers are finding the opportunities and so the client and Amwins understand how Amwins fits into their strategic priorities, and to grow both businesses.
[4:04] Dawnmarie says she and her team are there to support the retail brokers and also support Amwins's internal brokers in their growth initiatives.
[4:13] Dawnmarie joined Amwins in September of 2025.
[4:32] Dawnmarie's father owned an insurance agency in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. She worked at his agency from age 16. She went to Allegheny College in Meadville and worked at a local agency. She did a lot of mailroom, file room, cold calling, and CSR work.
[4:59] Dawnmarie thought she would ultimately move up in her father's agency and someday be the succession plan. He sold it, and Dawnmarie went to work for Chubb in their training program. It was a phenomenal start into this industry. They had a great training program.
[5:16] Dawnmarie says a lot of her group are still colleagues and friends today, which set the stage for her career.
[5:21] Dawnmarie says she moved through underwriting and brokerage, she built and launched an IT system at Aon, and went back to underwriting for a while. Most recently, Dawnmarie was the head of market development for the Americas at Lloyd's of London.
[5:54] Dawnmarie says it was an incredible role to understand what's happening in the global marketplace, at a 30,000-foot view, working with coders in the U.S. very closely. This is how she got to Amwins. She was promoting the Lloyd's market to the Amwins leadership team.
[6:37] Justin finds it fascinating that Dawnmarie was not the successor to her father but made her own way in the insurance industry. She learned it from the ground up. She has touched every part of the industry except for claims. She has come full circle, working with retailers again.
[7:04] Dawnmarie says it has been a very interesting and fulfilling journey. She feels like it has placed her well to be in a position like this, to be working with Amwins's retailers.
[7:36] Dawnmarie says she establishes trust with people through communication and transparency. She tells it like it is. She also will go the extra mile, out of her way to make sure things get done. At Amwins, there is a service leadership culture.
[8:01] Dawnmarie says she is there to help; to help direct, to help move things, or to help resolve things, at a very strategic, macro level. That fills her cup. She owns up to what she is promising. 
[8:19] Dawnmarie says, if she tells you she is going to get something done, she will get it done, to the best of her ability, or there will be a very good reason why it hasn't been done. It's important to communicate that.
[8:39] Dawnmarie says she thinks that the next generation of leaders exhibits these qualities. They are thoughtful and demanding and have high expectations. When Dawnmarie entered the industry, the culture required her to prove herself. There was a way to approach the business.
[9:14] Dawnmarie says the Chubb training program was 12 weeks in their training center in Warren, New Jersey. You learned the policy forms, how to work with insureds, and understand needs. You understood risk. You learned underwriting and pricing.
[9:36] The emphasis was understanding the business. Unfortunately for our young risk professionals, there are not as many programs like that available today.
[9:49] Dawnmarie says you find companies that are putting training programs together. Amwins has an underwriter development program that is outstanding. A lot of the business produced in Amwins comes from those who have come through the UDP or a broker development program.
[10:05] Dawnmarie says our industry has gotten away from the super-formalized training programs, probably to the detriment of our younger professionals, but we're all stepping in and finding ways to fill those gaps.
[10:30] Justin concludes that Dawnmarie had an analog, hands-on, pen-and-paper training program.
[11:06] Dawnmarie joined the APIW early in her career. She would go to two or three monthly luncheons a year. Then she left APIW for a few years.
[11:26] About 10 years ago, while she was at Lloyd's, Dawnmarie was asked to join the board of APIW and get more involved. There, Dawnmarie held the roles of Co-head of Programming, then Treasurer, and ultimately, she was asked to step into the President position.
[11:46] Dawnmarie says she has seen the incredible evolution of APIW, going from 500 members to 3,500 members in 11 chapters across the U.S. with 60 corporate sponsorships. APIW has grown since the first time Dawnmarie was involved.
[12:20] Dawnmarie says that in her early 40s, she went to her first Women's Leadership Conference by the Insurance Industry Charitable Foundation (IICF). There weren't a lot of events like that then. Dawnmarie was struggling to figure out what she wanted in her career.
[12:50] At this Women's Leadership Conference, a woman spoke on the importance of getting involved, joining boards, and growing your network. Dawnmarie had always done that organically, but she hadn't done it thoughtfully. It was client-driven.
[13:08] Dawnmarie went back to management and said that IICF board positions go to sponsor companies. She asked if Lloyd's would sponsor IICF and could she be chosen as the board member? That's where she got her first board experience.
[13:24] Dawnmarie moved up and ended up Co-chair of the Boston Chapter. She learned a lot, and it prepared her for APIW.
[13:41] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. This is a last call for registration for the Second Annual RIMS Texas Regional Conference, which will be held from August 10th through the 12th at the Grand Hyatt on the San Antonio River Walk.
[13:58] Visit RIMS.org/Events for registration information. The hotel cutoff date was July 10th. Reservations may still be made after the hotel cutoff date, subject to availability; however, the negotiated group rate is no longer guaranteed, so reserve now.
[14:14] The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information.
[14:25] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.
[14:41] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. We will be in Quebec City to celebrate the 50th Live RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Advance registration is open now.
[14:58] Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information. Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.
[15:13] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is now open.
[15:22] Through August 21st, you can nominate a program for the RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction. If you know of an ERM Program that is award-worthy, we want to hear about it. A link to the nomination form is in this episode's show notes. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026.
[15:41] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! The call for session proposals is now live and will stay active through August 21st.
[15:56] RIMS members can exclusively register by September 4th for the best rate. And get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.
[16:16] Let's Return to Our Interview with APIW President Dawnmarie Black!
[16:40] Dawnmarie says that the importance of building relationships with communication and transparency applies to risk managers as well.
[16:49] Dawnmarie says that risk managers getting to know their brokers and underwriters, building relationships, telling their story, building trust, and understanding the insurance and why a specific carrier is being suggested goes a long way if there's a claim or wording issue.
[17:47] Dawnmarie says with the relationships established, with the ability to pick up the phone and say, "We need to have a conversation," you've already set the stage.
[18:11] Dawnmarie says emerging risks the insurance industry needs to pay attention to in the next three to five years include addressing AI. Will AI drive margins down? We need to leverage it to do our jobs better. We can't just decide that we're simply going to depend on it.
[18:37] AI exists. It's there as a tool. We need to prepare our people to be able to assess it, analyze it, understand it, and program the prompts. The best prompt writers are getting the best results.
[18:56] It doesn't mean it's a perfect result, so you need the ability to communicate, analyze, and explain why the output makes sense and how it applies.
[19:20] Another emerging need is for more and more data and the ability to depend on that data, using AI to help understand it and being able to explain the data to the board why they can take a larger retention, or why we need more cover in this area.
[19:54] Dawnmarie talks about weather-related events. Catastrophic events aren't going away; they're getting worse. Illinois has had more convective storms this year than any other state. It's unexpected and unprepared for.
[20:16] The unexpected storm volume creates a shift for the underwriters, clients, and brokers, making sure they have the data to understand what's been exposed and what's been impacted. 
[20:30] The models need to address these shifts. We need, as an industry, to be pushing for that: the stronger the models, the more differentiated the models we can have.
[20:42] Maybe that's where AI plays a great role, helping us in the changing and adaptation. These are trends Dawnmarie watches. She is so impressed with the data that Amwins has to work with.
[21:06] When you have that good data, the world opens up to capital and new strategies. It makes a big difference in where an organization will go strategically. That impacts everybody.
[21:23] Sponsorships! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. RIMScast is proud of its longstanding relationships with AXA XL, Global Risk Consultants, Alliant, Zurich, and more.
[21:44] Links to many of these episodes are in the show notes. RIMScast sponsorships can be bundled with whitepapers and webinar sponsorships.
[21:52] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them!
[22:05] Reach out to Ted Donovan at  TDonovan@RIMS.org or reach out to Sales at Sales@RIMS.org. Let's find the best opportunity for you and your organization.
[22:18] Let's Conclude Our Dialog with APIW President Dawnmarie Black!
[22:54] To help make insurance careers more appealing to young professionals and career changers, Dawnmarie asks you to stop saying, "I just fell into insurance." We have a story to tell.
[23:13] There is a reason someone came into this industry. It probably wasn't planned, but how they got started and why they stayed; we need to talk more about why people stay in insurance. Because they love it! It is a wonderful ecosystem for growth and travel. It's stable.
[23:37] APIW just held Intern Days, one in New York, one in Chicago. This was their first year in Chicago, and about 20 people came. It was their second year in New York. About 50 came.
[23:51] Dawnmarie says we do this out of our budget. There's no charge for it. We bring the interns together for four hours. They do a leadership panel, networking, and answering questions. 
[24:04] Dawnmarie says a lot of other associations do this. She mentions RISE Professionals. They had a terrific Leadership Conference and Gala in Florida.
[24:20] That's an opportunity for young professionals to come together with very good programming around leadership. Networking with their peers and colleagues. Dressing up and going to a gala and celebrating. Dawnmarie has heard only positive feedback about that.
[24:38] APIW supports RISE. RISE supports the APIW Mentorship Program. You'll see a lot of interconnectivity among the insurance associations. They partner to share great programs rather than duplicating efforts. It helps both associations.
[25:01] The market in Charlotte rallies around Community Matters. There was a week-long session two weeks ago bringing in young children from under-represented communities to learn and understand about insurance.
[25:20] Dawnmarie says those kinds of programs where we're reaching out to talent, not only through traditional risk management schools, but looking at non-traditional avenues and non-traditional diversity avenues, and the HBCUs. The Black Sisterhood does incredible work.
[26:05] Justin gives a shoutout to the Spencer Educational Foundation. Dawnmarie says they have done such an incredible job in rallying the industry.
[26:22] At the Spencer dinner, when the young professionals get up to speak, they are inspirational in their careers and their appreciation for the opportunities to come into this industry. Justin doesn't know how they found time to sleep, doing all they did while in college.
[26:57] Justin and Dawnmarie discuss some of the speakers. He says, you hear these young people and wonder if they partied at all in college or were they just working on their risk management career? Justin notes there is the monetary incentive of scholarships and grants.
[27:41] Dawnmarie speaks of the incredible amount of work ethic she sees in the students who have come through the Spencer Educational Foundation program. Justin says they inspire him to work a little harder.
[28:08] Justin asks how we can keep the newer professionals engaged and committed to a long career. Dawnmarie says what seems to be important to them is that sense of community.
[28:24] We all come to work to work, but there's also the culture that you create, the culture of trust, and the idea that there are mentorship opportunities, and more senior people in the organization looking out for you, helping propel your career and answering your questions.
[28:48] Dawnmarie says that is key when you've got the younger generation, and you've got an experienced generation. In our industry, we have four or five different generations rolling through, all who come at things slightly differently.
[29:03] Dawnmarie says it's about understanding where people are coming from. She speaks of investing in talent development programs and professional programs, allowing talent the opportunity to become involved in outside associations, and encouraging networking.
[29:40] Dawnmarie closes this thought with the Amwins program, RTTP. They have people on the retirement track, senior brokers with books of business, and they have young people who are coming through the Broker Development Program.
[30:14] Two get matched up. There's a relationship formed. The client is taken care of because there's succession planning and consistency. The two are learning from each other. The books are passed off.
[30:28] There's respect for the experience that the senior broker brings to the table, and there's respect for what that young person is learning. Dawnmarie hasn't seen a lot of that across the industry. One of the things that enticed her about Amwins is that approach to the generations.
[30:54] Justin says kudos to Amwins. He has met some Amwins folks at Riskworld, and they're lovely. A Justin and Dawnmarie have in common is Liz King Kramer, a former APIW President. Liz gave Justin an APIW pin.
[31:18] Dawnmarie says Liz is the best! She has been mentoring Dawnmarie for over four years. Liz was Treasurer before Dawnmarie, and President before Dawnmarie. Liz helped Dawnmarie learn in both roles. She's become a terrific friend and partner.
[31:42] Munich Re just hosted a Golf Day for women. Dawnmarie was on a Panel with Liz King Kramer and Sabrina Hart, and then they did a golf clinic. Liz is an incredible leader for APIW.
[31:59] Dawnmarie says an APIW President's term is two years. Dawnmarie is at two years; however, she is going to extend for one more year. Then Tracey Vasile, who is an Industry Liaison and First Vice President, is going to step in. They will transition together.
[32:27] The APIW is having its 50th Anniversary Gala on Tuesday, Nov. 3, 2026, at the Edison Ballroom in Manhattan on 47th Street. Everyone's gearing up. They are working on a wonderful video. Dawnmarie says it's going to be a night to remember; everybody dress up and celebrate!
[32:56] Dawnmarie says the women who are involved, chapter heads from the various cities, the 2026 Woman of the Year, 14 past Women of the Year, and Cecilia Norad, the Founder of APIW, are all coming for an incredible lineup of programming, a beautiful dinner, and a beautiful event
[33:47] Dawnmarie says it's for making connections and strengthening those connections.
[33:51] Dawnmarie has had the opportunity to sit as a founder on Women In Specialty and Excess (WISE), an amazing emerging organization, and it was simply too much for her between being President of APIW and being part of WISE, so she stepped back.  
[34:07] Dawnmarie said what it made her realize is that the professionals in this industry, it could be any of the associations, step up, look outside of their sphere, and create these opportunities for other people to connect in these associations.
[34:26] Dawnmarie says when she thinks about 50 years, she thinks about all the work that has gone into standing up WISE or what Amy Cooper did with RISE, and where she's taking it. Fifty years of doing it really says a lot.
[34:40] Dawnmarie says it's a time to pause and think: where are we going for our next 50? Because we're going to be here and we're going to be delivering the program, the networking, the development, and the leadership.
[34:52] Dawnmarie says that is what we're excited about. We're looking at the past, the current, the future, and bringing in the young professionals; the people who helped build it and the young professionals, bridging that divide.
[35:36] Dawnmarie says she has a level of comfort on stage. During COVID, she learned that she struggles with virtual presentations.
[35:47] Dawnmarie used to get nervous in front of people; now she gets excited because she feels the energy in the room, she's creating the conversation, and engaging people. It is such a different experience. In a way, she's grateful for the virtual experience. It's taken away the fear.
[36:12] Justin says, Dawnmarie, it has been a pleasure to connect with you here on RIMScast. A quick reminder for everyone: The APIW's 50th Anniversary Gala will be on Tuesday, November 3, 2026, at the Edison Ballroom at 47th Street in Manhattan.
[36:28] Justin says, Dawnmarie will be there. If you attend, please let her know that you heard this RIMScast interview, and that's what piqued your interest to get there. I look forward to seeing you at RIMS events and Spencer events, too.
[36:41] Dawnmarie thanks Justin and RIMS and says, 350 of us at the Gala, maybe more. We look forward to seeing you there.
[36:54] Special thanks again to Dawnmarie Black of Amwins and APIW for joining us here on RIMScast. APIW's 50th Anniversary Gala will be on November 3, 2026, at the Edison Ballroom in New York City. Visit APIW.org.
[37:10] The countdown ticker for the Gala is on the page. Check it out and let them know you heard Dawnmarie on RIMSCast!
[27:18] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information.
[37:35] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.
[37:51] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.
[38:05] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org.
[38:17] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!
 
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About our guest:
Dawnmarie Black, Senior Vice President and Client Relationship Manager at Amwins
President of the Association of Professional Insurance Women (APIW)
 
Production and engineering provided by Podfly.