The Nathan Barry Show

My conversation with David Perell, host of the "How I Write" podcast and a truly prolific creator, took my understanding to a whole new level. He's one of the few people who has consistently challenged my thinking on how we communicate ideas effectively. In this episode, I dove deep with David into critical questions like: Does writing still hold its weight in today's crowded digital landscape? What specific elements should creators prioritize to make their words resonate? And importantly, how do you stand out when everyone else is shouting? David shares his incredible insights into the craft of writing, the power of observation, and his unique philosophy on identifying and leveraging "currents" to amplify your message. This was easily one of my favorite conversations on the show.

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:15 Obsessed with the Craft of Writing
02:45 The "Bit" as a Writing Concept
05:10 Why People Struggle with Writing
07:11 From Seeking Attention to Having Something to Say
10:40 The Discipline of Public Writing
13:58 Capturing and Curating Ideas
20:05 Riding Internet Currents
26:50 Identifying and Leveraging Currents
32:10 Tying Timeless Ideas to Timely Moments
39:15 Uncorrelated Sources of Inspiration
45:36 The "How I Write" Podcast
47:20 Production Value and Set Design
1:00:40 YouTube Growth and Packaging
1:04:40 The Guest Maximization Strategy
1:10:00 Creating "The Modern World" Series
1:16:00 The Modern Pollution of Man-Made Environment
1:19:30 Interplay of the Creator Economy and the Modern World
1:22:15 Creating the World You Want to Live In
1:29:26 Using Art and History to Hone Taste
1:34:00 The Soul-Stirring Work
1:35:40 Where to Find David

If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave a review. I read every single one.

Learn more about the podcast: https://nathanbarry.com/show

Follow Nathan:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanbarry
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanbarry
X: https://twitter.com/nathanbarry
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thenathanbarryshow
Website: https://nathanbarry.com
Kit: https://www.kit.com

Follow David:
X: https://twitter.com/david_perell
Website: https://www.perell.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidperell

Featured in this episode:
Kit: https://www.kit.com
Modern World (YouTube Channel): https://www.youtube.com/@TheModernWorld
Building a Second Brain: https://www.buildingasecondbrain.com
The Artist's Way: https://juliacameronlive.com/books/the-artists-way

Highlights:
01:15 – The obsession with writing as a craft.
20:05 – Understanding and leveraging internet "currents" for content.
40:30 – Why consuming uncorrelated content elevates your work.
59:20 – The art of deep communication in interviewing.
1:29:26 – Cultivating taste by actively discerning what you love and hate.

I recently sat down with my speaking coach, Mike Pacchione, for this totally unprecedented episode where we dissect, minute by minute, my full keynote speech from this year's Craft + Commerce conference. We’re not holding anything back. Mike points out my flaws, celebrates my strengths, and reveals all the chaos that happens backstage that the audience never sees. If you've ever delivered a product launch, feared public speaking, or just want to understand the art of a compelling presentation, you'll learn so much from our candid conversation.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:03 Breaking Down the Keynote
02:22 The Chaos Before the Stage
04:02 The Missing Walk-Out Music
07:44 The "Be a Zero" Concept
09:47 Avoiding Speaker Voice
13:17 Building Tension and Specificity
19:19 The Stephen Colbert Joke
20:52 The Dad's Wisdom Story
28:16 The Challenge of Technical Terms
34:03 Debating Product Announcement Timing
40:35 The Elusive Applause Moment
48:29 Katie's Spotlighting an Audience Member
53:05 The Landing Page Humiliation Slide
01:01:00 The New York City Event Space Announcement
01:07:07 The Closing and Audience Reaction
01:12:00 Rehearsal Techniques and Speaker Notes
If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave a review. I read every single one.
Learn more about the podcast: https://nathanbarry.com/show

Follow Nathan:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanbarry
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanbarry
X: https://twitter.com/nathanbarry
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thenathanbarryshow
Website: https://nathanbarry.com
Kit: https://kit.com
Follow Mike:
Freebie: https://bestspeech.co/nathan
Website: https://bestspeech.co
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpacchione
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mpacc
X: https://x.com/mpacc
Featured in this episode:
Kit: https://www.kit.com
John Koenig - The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows: https://www.youtube.com/user/johnkoenig
The State Change Method - Wes Kao: https://weskao.com
The Happiness Project - Gretchen Rubin: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/the-happiness-project
Tim Urban TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/tim_urban_inside_the_mind_of_a_master_procrastinator
Framer: https://www.framer.com
Highlights:
01:03 – Mike critiques my keynote opening
11:50 – The secret behind my opening pause
25:06 – How real-world stories prove product value
31:09 – The unexpected success of a borrowed joke
53:10 – The power of a critical feedback slide

I've always brought Mike Pacchione in to coach every speaker at my Craft + Commerce conferences, including myself, because he has an uncanny ability to help people transform their talks from good to truly great. Mike's number one goal? For the audience to forget it's even a speech. In our conversation, Mike unpacks his framework for crafting compelling stories, why you should almost never tell them in chronological order, and his genius TED acronym for tension, editing for emotional impact, and the right details. He also shares invaluable insights on designing an ending that resonates and even how to strategically use humor (especially if you're not naturally funny). This episode is packed with lessons I've learned firsthand from Mike over the years.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
02:00 Making the audience forget it's a speech
04:06 Setting the room up for success
06:14 The power of stories in speeches
08:39 Story selection and placement
10:42 Why you don't need to tell stories in order
11:11 Mike's TED acronym for storytelling: Tension
14:55 Editing for emotional impact
20:02 Crafting an engaging middle of a speech
22:57 Asking questions to build tension
24:37 Describing people in vivid detail (loglines)
30:48 Crafting a powerful ending
33:09 The "one more thing" strategy
40:07 Controlling the emotional arc of a talk
40:50 Using humor effectively
44:09 The power of awkward silence and tension
45:53 Cueing the audience for laughs and applause
48:14 Leading the audience with your emotions
50:57 Mike's take on using AI for speeches
55:24 How to work with Mike Pacchione
56:47 Mike's free resource
If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave a review. I read every single one.
Learn more about the podcast: https://nathanbarry.com/show
Follow Nathan:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanbarry
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanbarry
X: https://twitter.com/nathanbarry
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thenathanbarryshow
Website: https://nathanbarry.com
Kit: https://www.kit.com
Follow Mike:
Freebie: https://bestspeech.co/nathan
Website: https://bestspeech.co
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpacchione
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mpacc
X: https://x.com/mpacc
Featured in this episode:
Kit: https://www.kit.com
Duarte: https://www.duarte.com
Atomic Habits: https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habits
WP Engine: https://wpengine.com
ConvertKit: https://convertkit.com
Highlights:
02:01 – Getting the audience to forget it's a speech
15:30 – Ending your story in the middle for maximum impact
26:06 – Sarah: The person who eats quinoa for a cheat meal
37:05 – Why you should never end your talk on Q&A
53:02 – The point of a speech is to make an emotional connection

How do you build significant wealth in a way that feels sustainable and joyful, rather than sacrificing your mental and physical health? That's what I explored in my conversation with Mallory Rowan, who achieved a million-dollar net worth by age 29, but not without first hitting a wall of burnout at 22. Her story isn't just about financial metrics; it's a testament to redefining success and building a life where financial freedom supports personal well-being. I was particularly struck by her "Six Solutions Theory" and how she challenges the conventional wisdom about ambition versus balance. Join me as Mallory shares her unique approach to turning profit into compounding assets and creating a business that serves her life, not the other way around.

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:06 Burnout at 22: Ignoring the whispers
03:59 The toxic cycle of business, health, and happiness
07:22 When you realize the limit keeps moving
10:14 The collision of creativity and finances
13:17 Rebuilding after burnout
18:03 The difference between revenue and profit
21:02 Making investing goals exciting
27:26 Getting specific about building wealth
30:45 The cottage purchase and creative financing
32:02 Active income and first down payment
34:03 The million dollars invested goal
41:17 Why net worth goals matter more
52:27 Having it all: Ambition and avoiding burnout
55:28 Why behind the goal: The Toddler Test
57:38 The categories: non-negotiables, nice-to-haves, experiments
01:00:04 How a nest egg enables lighter living and creativity

If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave a review. I read every single one.

Learn more about the podcast: https://nathanbarry.com/show

Follow Nathan:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanbarry
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanbarry
X: https://twitter.com/nathanbarry
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thenathanbarryshow
Website: https://nathanbarry.com
Kit: https://www.kit.com

Follow Mallory:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/malloryrowan
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theinbetweenersco
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@malloryrowan
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/malloryrowan?originalSubdomain=ca
Website: https://malloryrowan.com

Featured in this episode:
Kit: https://www.kit.com

Highlights:
01:06 – Ignoring the whispers before burnout screams
15:00 – Strategically building "boredom" into your business model
25:21 – The "Thumbnailing" approach to problem-solving
41:17 – Why net worth goals offer true financial freedom
01:00:04 – How a solid nest egg allows for lighter, more playful business decisions

How do actually make meaningful money on Instagram? That's what I wanted to find out when I sat down with Gannon Meyer. He's figured out how to turn social media attention into actual revenue. My guest today, Gannon, went from living with his girlfriend's mom to building a thriving business in just 12 months, and he credits a huge part of that transformation to what he shares in our conversation. We dive deep into his "free, segment, upsell" framework for converting Instagram followers into paying customers, and I even get a direct critique of my own content strategy. If you're looking to monetize your audience on Instagram, you won't want to miss Gannon's insights.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:14 Converting Instagram attention into revenue
03:33 Client examples and creator income levels
06:47 The "Free, Segment, Upsell" funnel framework
08:39 Using open-ended questions for better segmentation
10:50 How ManyChat and AI interpret responses
13:12 Real-world example: Adrian's camera business
15:52 Good vs. bad open-ended questions
18:18 Crafting a CTA for your free content
22:00 Storytelling frameworks for strong retention
30:07 Maximizing engagement with Instagram Stories
33:22 The impact of CTAs on Instagram reach
35:01 Why comments are crucial for discoverability
44:19 The truth about views vs. revenue
47:55 Deep diving into solving problems for revenue
51:08 How Gannon's 'whiteboard' videos attract clients
53:22 Gannon's life transformation in 12 months
58:50 The realization: being willing to be wrong in public
1:04:15 The power of putting yourself out there
If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave a review. I read every single one.
Learn more about the podcast: https://nathanbarry.com/show
Follow Nathan:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanbarry
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanbarry
X: https://twitter.com/nathanbarry
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thenathanbarryshow
Website: https://nathanbarry.com
Kit: https://www.kit.com
Follow Gannon:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gannon.meyer
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@gannonmeyer
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gannonmeyer
Featured in this episode:
Kit: https://www.kit.com
Highlights:
01:30 Gannon's approach to helping people sell their products
16:17 How to ask open-ended questions effectively
30:57 The PSA story framework for Instagram
46:12 Why high views don't always equal high revenue
59:57 The power of being willing to be wrong in public