Work For Humans

Most companies obsess over products, but Jim Kalbach believes they're asking the wrong question. Customers don't buy products because of what they are. They "hire" them to make progress in their lives. Jobs to Be Done is a way of uncovering that progress, helping organizations stop guessing what people want and start understanding twhat people are really trying to accomplish. In this revisited episode, Dart and Jim discuss how Jobs to Be Done helps organizations uncover unmet customer needs, align teams around real problems, and apply the framework to innovation, hiring, and finding the right work for people.
Jim Kalbach is an author, speaker, and instructor in innovation, design, and the future of work. He is the Chief Evangelist at Mural and Co-Founder and Principal of the JTBD Toolkit, where he helps organizations apply Jobs to Be Done to innovation, product strategy, and customer experience.
In this episode, Dart and Jim discuss:
- Why customers "hire" products
- Finding unmet customer needs
- Solving problems, not building features
- Using JTBD to drive innovation
- Matching people to the right work
- Understanding customer circumstances
- A shared language for teams
- Mindset before methodology
- And other topics…

Jim Kalbach is the Chief Evangelist at Mural and Co-Founder and Principal of the JTBD Toolkit, where he helps organizations apply Jobs to Be Done to innovation, product strategy, and customer experience. He is the author of Designing Web Navigation, Mapping Experiences, and The Jobs to Be Done Playbook, and co-author of Collaborative Intelligence. Before joining Mural, Jim worked in design and innovation consulting with organizations including eBay, Sony, IBM, EY, LexisNexis, and Citrix.

Resources Mentioned:
The Jobs to Be Done Playbook, by Jim Kalbach: https://www.amazon.com/Jobs-Be-Done-Playbook-Organization/dp/1933820683
Mapping Experiences, by Jim Kalbach: https://www.amazon.com/Mapping-Experiences-Complete-Creating-Blueprints/dp/1491923539
JTBD Toolkit: https://www.jtbdtoolkit.com/
The Experience Economy, by B. Joseph Pine II and James H. Gilmore: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-Competing-Customer-Time/dp/1633697975

Connect with Jim:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kalbach/
JTBD Toolkit: https://www.jtbdtoolkit.com/
Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Vanessa Monsequeira spent years leading change initiatives and helping organizations roll out new systems. Again and again, she saw that the hardest part wasn't convincing people to change, it was that the work itself had never been intentionally designed. That realization led her to apply product thinking to the workplace, treating work as something to be researched, tested, and continuously improved. In this episode, Dart and Vanessa discuss what it means to design work intentionally, how product thinking is reshaping HR, and why the future of work depends less on new technology than on better design.

Vanessa Monsequeira is a people and product leader who applies product thinking to the design of work. She has led People teams at Miro and Gorilla and now advises founders and executives on building more intentional, human-centered organizations.

In this episode, Dart and Vanessa discuss:
- Why work should be designed
- HR as a product team
- The MVP approach to work
- Experimenting before scaling
- Rethinking performance management
- Designing fairness into systems
- Better managers by design
- AI as a learning partner
- Leading with an abundance mindset
- And other topics…

Vanessa Monsequeira is a people and product leader who helps organizations design better work through product thinking. She has held leadership roles at Miro, Gorilla, PwC, Deloitte, and Philips, where she applied product management principles to people strategy, employee experience, and organizational design. Today, she advises founders and executives on building better workplaces, developing stronger leaders, and navigating AI-driven change.
Connect with Vanessa:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessamonsequeira/
Website: https://www.vanessamonsequeira.com/
Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Dr. Bob Aubrey has spent decades advancing the field of human development across Asia. With experience spanning 25 countries and six continents, he founded and chairs the Advisory Board of the ASEAN Human Development Organisation (AHDO), which promotes human development across the region and beyond. In this episode, Dart and Bob discuss the global human development movement, where it fits alongside HR, and what it means for capitalism, company profitability, and the future of work.

Dr. Bob Aubrey is a human development consultant, author, educator, social entrepreneur, and leadership advisor whose work has spanned more than 25 countries across six continents.

In this episode, Dart and Bob discuss:
- How human deveolpment (HD) creates a better work environment
- How HR and HD work together
- HD curriculum and career paths
- The importance of ethics in companies and investments
- How Environmental Social Governance improves profitability
- HD within the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)
- HR practices in Western vs. non-Western nations
- How to create an organization that prioritizes employee well-being
- If and how HD can coexist with capitalism
- And other topics...
Dr. Bob Aubrey is a human development consultant, author, educator, social entrepreneur, and leadership advisor whose work has spanned more than 25 countries across six continents. He is the Founder and Chair of the Advisory Board of the ASEAN Human Development Organisation (AHDO) and the Managing Director of Bob Aubrey Associates.
Bob has authored numerous books on human development and leadership, including Human Development Careers: Leading the Future of Work, one of the first books dedicated to careers in human development, and The Ethics of ASEAN. Through his writing, consulting, and educational initiatives, he continues to advance the field of human development across Southeast Asia and beyond.

Resources mentioned:
Human Development Careers, by Bob Aubrey: https://www.amazon.com/Human-Development-Careers-Leading-Future-ebook/dp/B08QJ1BS98
Measure of Man, by Bob Aubrey: https://www.amazon.com/Measure-Man-Leading-Human-Development-ebook/dp/B014IF1W36
The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, by Thomas S. Kuhn: https://www.amazon.com/Structure-Scientific-Revolutions-50th-Anniversary-ebook/dp/B007USH7J2
Human Resource Champions, by David Ulrich: https://www.amazon.com/Human-Resource-Champions-David-Ulrich/dp/0875847196

Connect with Bob:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobaubrey/
ASEAN Human Development Organisation: https://www.aseanhdo.com/about
Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Most organizations are built around hierarchy, clear reporting lines, and top-down control. But a growing number are experimenting with a different way of organizing work through self-management, distributed authority, and evolving purpose. As more organizations experiment with alternatives to traditional management, Matthew Spaur has spent years studying Teal organizations and what actually happens when hierarchy gives way to self-management.

In this episode, Dart and Matthew discuss what Teal really is, how self-managing organizations operate, and whether these post-bureaucratic management models are delivering on their promise.

Matthew Spaur is a marketing consultant, author, and researcher who studies self-managing organizations and emerging models of work. He is a co-author of the annual Teal Landscape Report, which tracks organizations experimenting with post-bureaucratic management.
In this episode, Dart and Matthew discuss:
- Beyond bureaucracy
- What Teal organizations really are
- Predict and control vs. sense and respond
- Roles instead of job descriptions
- Leadership without traditional bosses
- Bringing your whole self to work
- Organizations with an evolving purpose
- Are these models actually working?
- AI and the future of management
- And other topics…

Matthew Spaur is a marketing consultant, author, and researcher focused on emerging models of organization and management. He is a co-author of the annual Teal Landscape Report, a global study of organizations experimenting with self-management and other post-bureaucratic management practices. Through his consulting work, Matthew helps organizations communicate their ideas, adapt to change, and rethink how work is organized.

Resources Mentioned:
Reinventing Organizations, by Frederic Laloux: https://www.amazon.com/Reinventing-Organizations-Creating-Inspired-Consciousness/dp/2960133501
Holacracy: The New Management System for a Rapidly Changing World, by Brian J. Robertson: https://www.amazon.com/Holacracy-Management-System-Rapidly-Changing/dp/162779428X

Connect with Matthew:
Official website: https://matthewspaur.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewspaur/
Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Twenty years ago, Abraham Burickson and his collaborators asked a simple question: what if a work of art were designed for just one person? Instead of creating experiences for the masses, they spent months crafting deeply personal journeys for an audience of one. That experiment grew into a new way of thinking about design, participation, and transformation.

In this revisited episode, Dart and Abraham discuss what those lessons can teach us about management, why experience cannot be fully designed, and how organizations can become platforms for people to create meaning together.

Abraham Burickson is an author, speaker, and experience designer who has spent more than two decades exploring how designed experiences can transform people. He is the co-founder and Artistic Director of Odyssey Works and the author of Experience Design: A Participatory Manifesto.

In this episode, Dart and Abraham discuss:
- How to create a transformative experience for a single individual
- Can managers be experience designers?
- Why experience is not designable
- How to implement experience design at work
- Baking experiences within static products
- Designing for transformation
- Work as a shared experience
- The origin story and myths of organizations
- And other topics…

Abraham Burickson is an author, experience designer, and artist who has spent more than two decades exploring how design shapes human experience. He is the co-founder and Artistic Director of Odyssey Works, where he creates immersive performances for audiences of one, and co-directs the Experience Design Certificate Program. Trained in architecture at Cornell University, his work spans art, design, education, and consulting. He is the author of Experience Design: A Participatory Manifesto and co-author of Odyssey Works: Transformative Experiences for an Audience of One.

Resources mentioned:
Experience Design, by Abraham Burickson: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Design-Participatory-Abraham-Burickson/dp/0300269471
Odyssey Works, by Abraham Burickson: https://www.amazon.com/Odyssey-Works-Transformative-Experiences-Audience/dp/1616895152
The Anatomy of Genres, by John Truby: https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Genres-Story-Forms-Explain/dp/0374539227

Connect with Abraham:
https://www.abrahamburickson.com/
https://www.owprograms.com/
Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.