The Way Out Is In

If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino sit down with a special guest: acclaimed actor Benedict Cumberbatch. Their unplanned conversation is dense and surprising, going in many unexpected and exciting directions. Topics include Benedict’s entry into Buddhism at 19, which eventually led him to Plum Village; his most recent project, How to Live on Earth, a documentary “about how humans are learning to team up with nature”; and new approaches to climate activism.

All three also delve into the role of Plum Village in helping young people find their spiritual path; the challenges of maintaining mindfulness in daily life; interbeing; the importance of transforming negative patterns early on; how anger can be channeled into positive action; the pitfalls of fame; the responsibility of artists to create meaningful, impactful work; and much more.

Enjoy!

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources

Benedict Cumberbatch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_Cumberbatch  

Sister True Dedication
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiem

Brother Phap Ling (Brother Spirit)
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-phap-linh 

Walk with Me
https://plumvillage.org/walk-with-me

Calm in the Storm
https://plumvillage.org/articles/calm-in-the-storm-live-podcast

How to Live on Earth
https://howtoliveonearth.net/

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing

The Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition

Wake Up
https://wkup.org/

The Maasai Wilderness Conservation Trust
https://maasaiwilderness.org/ 

Joanna Macy
https://www.joannamacy.net/main

Babak Anvari
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babak_Anvari

Under the Shadow
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_the_Shadow

Martin Scorsese
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Scorsese

Mike Leigh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Leigh

Richard Gere
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Gere

Quotes

“We were in this room for two nights and a day. Sleeping, eating, praying, only going out to go to the bathroom. In a weird way, it was a very good grounding. After the week was over, I remember an amazing feeling of walking out into the world and everything, everything was interbeing; everything was vibrating with the same energy; everything felt alive in a completely transparent and new but also obvious way.”

“The first night, both my younger boys came to the nine o’clock meditation. They saw me going, so there was a bit of FOMO, I guess. And they both said, ‘Oh, it was amazing. It was the best. It was so quiet. It was so peaceful.’ They were so quiet, and that’s a seven- and a nine-year-old. And it’s testament to the power of this place, what it invites you to become, and bring out of yourself, these seeds that it waters. It’s really an extraordinary place to be, and to see that in a young person is an inspiration to me.”

“I think all of us experience spirituality very differently. We’re very conditioned in our way of being and by our upbringing. And, for some of us, that is through suffering. For some of us, it’s through curiosity. For some of us, it’s through questioning the meaning of life. For some of us, it’s thanks to friends.”

“The spirituality, for us monastics, is in the humans and the surroundings: the temple, the bells, the bell tower, the Buddha; all of that is to support the journey that we have embarked on.”

“Our teacher recognized that everybody has to be a peace movement. It’s not a one-time thing, and we don’t only wait for chaos and wars and separation; even when there is goodness and well-being, we have to already be doing the work, because it is so important to transform what we have received from the past.”

“A Plum Village retreat is a magical thing, but then you go home and it’s about how you continue that work. And talking about this reminds me that I didn’t continue that work then, and about what I still struggle with now. When I’m anything but mindful, anything but grateful, anything but present, it’s painful. But the beautiful thing about adopting mindfulness early, and continuing that practice in some form or to some degree is so, so, so important.”

“Complete equilibrium is an impossibility. We shouldn’t give ourselves these huge, painful gaps between expectation and reality; there’s a lot of suffering in that, and that’s not what this work is about.”

“We want people who are involved in capitalist systems and financial structures to look at nature as something that’s valuable in a different way to how it’s being misused at the moment. Valuable as green being the new gold, as alive being more valuable than dead or hunted or extracted.”

“To recognize your limitations is part of the gift to yourself so that you can keep giving.”

If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

This special episode features a deep conversation about Vietnamese identity in the diaspora, led by Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu, scholar Nho Tran, and acclaimed novelist Ocean Vuong.

The discussion explores Vietnameseness, the complexities of being Vietnamese in the West, and the challenges of maintaining cultural identity while adapting to new environments. The three speakers reflect on their personal journeys; the role of Buddhism in shaping their understanding of identity; the need to reject binary thinking and embrace the multifaceted nature of Vietnamese identity; the practice of joy; communal healing; the significance of filial piety; the role of language and tradition in preserving cultural heritage; honoring one’s roots while allowing for personal growth; and more.

With an intro by Jo Confino and a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu.

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources

Ocean Vuong
https://www.oceanvuong.com/

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing

The Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition

The Way Out Is In: ‘Cultivating Joy and Togetherness in the Midst of Hardship (Episode #95)’ https://plumvillage.org/podcast/cultivating-joy-and-togetherness-in-the-midst-of-hardship-episode-95

The Way Out Is In: ‘Roots and Renewal (Episode #91)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/roots-and-renewal-episode-91

The Way Out Is In: ‘Spiritual Friendship (Episode #90)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/spiritual-friendships-episode-90

Maya Angelou
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_Angelou

Hoa Nguyen
https://www.hoa-nguyen.com/

Édouard Glissant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89douard_Glissant

Sarah Ahmed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Ahmed

Paris by Night
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_by_Night

The white gaze
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_gaze

Chinua Achebe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinua_Achebe

Paul Celan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Celan

Hayao Miyazaki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki

Nina Simone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Simone

On Earth We’re Briefly Gorgeous
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Earth_We%27re_Briefly_Gorgeous

Quotes

“The first Dharma seal of our practice is, ‘I have arrived, I am home.’ And ‘arrive’, here, means to be with yourself and not feel disconnected from who you are.”

“How lucky we are that Thay offered us a practice where there isn’t a demand for perfection, but a demand for presence and a demand for love in all of its manifestations. That is a thing that begins to heal.”

“Part of what Buddhism has taught me is to be able to be brave and ferocious enough. I think people don’t understand the ferocity Buddhist practice demands of you. That’s why I love the idea of the wrathful deities – because Buddhism has been commodified in the West as self-help, corporate self-help especially: ‘Go calm down so you can answer more emails efficiently for the corporation.’”

“The things that I lean on most, every day, are Buddhist ideas of committing oneself fully with courage. Courage is very different from fearlessness, because fearlessness means there is no fear – but there’s a lot of fear in me. I don’t know about y’all, but, living in this world, there’s a lot of fear. But courage is doing something despite fear. Buddhism has given me that set of tools. And Thay’s being, Thay’s embodiment to walk out of turmoil and sitting calmly within oneself, is a tremendous power. That’s what a lot of Westerners don’t understand when they see someone like Thay. They’re like, ‘Wow, what a peaceful monk.’ Sure. But what I see is, ‘Wow, this is an impenetrable force of survival’ – and it feels so strong to me.”

“Buddhism is a way of being. It’s a way of being liberated in the present moment to give honor to all of the conditions that have come together to give you this moment.”

“Fear becomes knowledge and knowledge becomes progress.”

“Joy is an act of resistance.”

“Our practice is a practice of joy. Yes, we take suffering seriously, but joy is the name of the game.”

“Something I want to say to young Asian-American artists is that just because a white audience is bored of your pain, you don’t need to start tap dancing for that audience. You get to engage with your history robustly. And it’s up to you to navigate that on your terms and not fall into being swayed by audience fatigue. Because trends come and go. Some people will find diasporic violence interesting; some people will find it overdone. But you’re not beholden to them – you’re beholden to how you want to tell your story, as thoroughly as you want.”

“Sometimes we perpetuate the white gaze among each other. That’s a well-documented colonial artifact: once the empire retreats, its tools – material, psychological, and structural – are picked up and implemented, often right away, to abuse one another.”

If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino discuss the concept of ‘trust in life’. Together, they explore how Buddhist teachings can help us to navigate the tension between accepting life as it is and wanting to control it.

The conversation further touches on the challenges of modern life, such as information overload and the tendency to seek quick fixes, and how these can be addressed through mindful practices; the role of suffering in personal growth and the importance of being present with one’s experiences; developing inner trust and understanding; the role of mindfulness, direct experience, and discernment in cultivating trust; the significance of simplicity, listening, and the practice of ‘beginner’s mind’ in spiritual growth; the Buddhist concept of aimlessness; and more.

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources

Brother Phap Ling (Brother Spirit)
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-phap-linh 

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing

The Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition

The Sun My Heart
https://www.parallax.org/product/the-sun-my-heart/

Mahayana
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana

Dharma Talks: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truths

Ocean Vuong
https://www.oceanvuong.com/

Dharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-path

The Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Doors of Liberation (Episode #18)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-doors-of-liberation-episode-18

Quotes

“Trust in God, but don’t forget to tie up your camel.”

“Understanding is love, is peace – because, when we understand suffering, we don’t want to create more suffering.”

“If we listen deeply, we can see how many conditions we have to generate the understanding that allows us to have joy and happiness in the present moment.”

“As a human being, we all have a spiritual dimension, and it’s not far away. It’s not found in a retreat. It’s not found in a monastery. It is everywhere. It’s in the ultimate dimension, the historical dimension. It’s in the trees. It is us. But we’re not able to activate it – our collective culture doesn’t allow us to tap into that. We have been afraid of being sensitive, of having empathy, and it’s hard to be in a world where we’re not conditionedto be with our feelings.”

“Thay said not to bring your intellectual mind into Dharma talks, because it will try to agree or disagree. The intellectual mind will try to consume the understanding, which becomes a blockage to deeper understanding of your deepest potentials.”

“In Buddhist Zen Mahayana literature, sometimes we have to be a learner, and sometimes we have to let go of the learning because it’s enough. Just practice. Enjoy the present moment.”

“Sometimes we draw a graph and think growth is always going up or being solid. But, sometimes, growth is knowing that we’re suffering but not being carried away by it – just being present and holding it and listening to it.”

If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino discuss the difficulty of asking for help, exploring the cultural and personal barriers that can prevent people from seeking assistance. They emphasize the importance of recognizing indirect requests for help, and the need for compassion and presence when one is asked for help; the role of community and nature in providing support; and the necessity of self-forgiveness and self-care.

The conversation underscores collective responsibility for addressing societal issues, and the power of shared vulnerability in fostering deeper connections. The hosts also share practical steps, from both teachings and their own lives.

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources

Sister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khong

Brother Phap Ling (Brother Spirit)
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-phap-linh

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing

The Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition

Wake Up Retreat 2026
https://plumvillage.org/articles/wake-up-retreat-2026-am-i-good-enough

The Four Mantras of Love
https://plumvillage.org/gems/event/The-Four-Mantras-of-Love-V2DFQvyDMgD3NEx7GTKfXz

European Institute of Applied Buddhism
https://www.eiab.eu/

Mahayana
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana

The Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Jewels (Episode #89)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-jewels-episode-89

‘Beginning Anew’
https://www.parallax.org/mindfulnessbell/article/beginning-anew/

The Way Out Is In: ‘True Love: Practicing in Relationships (Episode #31)’ https://plumvillage.org/podcast/true-love-practicing-in-relationship-episode-31

Quotes

“Because we are alive, everything is possible.”

“Unfortunately, as humans, we tend to only recognize that something is really happening when we experience it.”

“The beauty of mindfulness and meditation is to welcome the vulnerability in ourselves.”

“For someone to ask for help, they need someone to be compassionate.”

“When you can listen deeply, you can hear what the other person is not saying.”

“Asking for help is a leadership skill.”

“People think the environment is outside of themselves – but they are the environment.”

“We need to turn to ourselves, to take responsibility and to forgive ourselves, and then reach out to people in a way that benefits them. Because, when we ask for help, we give them permission to also experience that.”

If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined by Zen Buddhist nun Sister True Dedication. Together, they explore the significance and offerings of the Plum Village community – a sanctuary of peace, healing, and mindfulness, in stark contrast to the fast-paced, consumer-driven world outside.

The three speakers further discuss the importance of a physical environment for spiritual practice, where individuals can reconnect with their true selves; the value of community living, where monastics share a collective career and work towards the flourishing of the community rather than individual success; the relevance of the five mindfulness trainings, which serve as ethical guidelines for personal and societal transformation; and much more.

The conversation also touches upon the need for support to maintain and expand the Plum Village facilities, the importance of generosity, and the impact of supporting engaged monastic communities. 

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing

Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition

The Bodhisattva vow
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva_vow 

The Five Mindfulness Trainings
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-5-mindfulness-trainings

The Fourteen Mindfulness Trainings
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-14-mindfulness-trainings

Es Devlin
https://esdevlin.com/

Rebecca Solnit
https://www.rebeccasolnit.net/

The Way Out Is In: ‘Stepping into Freedom – Live Recording with Q&A Session (Episode #67)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/stepping-into-freedom-live-recording-with-qa-session-episode-67 

The Way Out Is In: ‘Cultivating Joy and Togetherness in the Midst of Hardship (Episode #95)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/cultivating-joy-and-togetherness-in-the-midst-of-hardship-episode-95

Quotes

“Plum Village emerged from our teacher’s vision of how the world could look and feel different from mainstream society. From the beginning, Plum Village has been a community of resistance. We could even call it a community of resilience: a physical environment that holds different values to the mainstream consciousness. We can all recognize those values. It might be unbridled capitalism, craving, consumerism, violence, or excesses of different kinds that we see in our immediate lives, around us, and in the economic and labor systems that we’re a part of. The vision for Plum Village was, ‘What if we create a physical environment that models entirely different values?’ Embodying those values is the resistance. For example, embodying peace, harmony, collectiveness, and community rather than individualism.”

“We need to reclaim our sovereignty from the machines of our creation.”

“Plum Village is holding an environment of peace and healing and freedom from the rat race; freedom from the world of technological overwhelm.”

“At a retreat, we are invited into a space of sharing our generosity in presence. We’re not sitting for ourselves: we’re sitting for the collective. When we are taking care of our emotions, we’re also taking care of the emotions of the collective, because we start to see the interbeing of the individual and the collective, their interconnectedness.”

“We organize our life in such a way that we are literally cultivating compassion, mindfulness, patience, and inclusiveness every day. We’re not perfect, but this is our work in progress and it’s quite noble and, though we struggle so much, we feel in our bones that we’re doing this work every day. It also allows me to have some faith in the future as we enter this period of disruption for society, for the climate, for agriculture, for nature – to be able to cooperate, to live cooperatively, to share resources, and to moderate and temper our needs. These are such important human practices. The qualities we’re holding here – compassion, mindfulness – are a treasure trove for future generations. These are exactly the values that we want to trust will still be there in decades and centuries to come.”

“In each hamlet are 50 or 60 monastics living together, cultivating non-violence in their speech, in their thinking, in their way of being, in their way of washing a bowl, in their way of brushing their teeth, in their ways of being with the mosquitoes. We’re living as an example of non-violence in the world. And then being able to lift that up into our engagement with everyone who comes to us. It may sound like we’re describing a bubble. But, because we are living in a constant relationship with the thousands of people that come and spend time with us every year, another way to describe us is as being like a river bank with a river flowing through it. We’re a gentle river bank that caresses the water for a little bit before it moves on back into the world. And so people have a chance to taste these energies that we’re generating as a collective here.”

“The only way that we are going to save ourselves from the collapse of civilization is through a collective awakening. Individual awakening is not enough.”

“We’re not going to sort everything out in this lifetime, but what we can offer is more tools, more practices, more understanding, more care, and more compassion for the next generation, so that they can carry this path forward into the future.”

“Thay has really expanded this home – it’s not just for the monks and nuns. The monastery is also open for the lay community to come in and taste true peace.”

“When you come to Plum Village for seven days and don’t drive a vehicle, that’s already an impact. When you’re vegetarian for seven days, that’s an impact. When you are not expressing anger for seven days, that’s an impact. When you’re listening to yourself and healing some blockage that’s been waiting for you to look at it and embrace it, that’s an impact. That’s healing. That is already work for your ancestors, work for society. And so the journey of a monastery – or we could call it a practice center – is important because it is also a place where we know we can put down our masks. It can become a great equalizer. Everyone here, we’re human beings; it doesn’t matter what titles we hold in the world outside. Here, in the monastery, there’s a power to the monastic’s presence.”

“It is very clear from the teachings of Thay and the Buddha, and from our own moral compasses, that, if we don’t take care of our suffering – our loneliness, our violence, and our hatred, by naming it and saying, ‘Okay, I’m co-responsible, and it is my responsibility to also transform this’ – we’re not going to change the system.”