Ep 154. Is it in Israel’s interest to recognize Palestinian Statehood? A conversation with former Israeli Ambassador Ilan Baruch
In this bonus episode, Jane and Jason are joined by former Israeli Ambassador to South Africa, Ilan Baruch, to present a unique perspective on a possible route to peace between Israel and Palestine. Amb. Baruch is a part of the ‘Policy Working Group’, which advocates for ‘leveling the playing field’ between Israelis and Palestinians.
We discuss the need for ‘equality’ among parties in negotiations, the role of the UK and international community in peace efforts, and what recognition of Palestinian statehood actually means for peace. Plus: changes in Israeli and Diasporic Jewish public opinion regarding a two-state solution, and as they Order the Disorder, Amb. Baruch puts forward a vision for a peaceful future in the Middle East and the role of international powers in achieving it. Jason pushes back on this vision of an Israel-Palestinian condominium as overly optimistic, but hopefully it makes for a great listen.
To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
Producer: George McDonagh
Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/
Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow
Show Notes Links:
Pls Join the Mega Orderers Club for ad-free listening and early release of the episodes, via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
NGO MONITOR—SHRINKING SPACE: http://policyworkinggroup.org.il/
Listen to World Report https://open.spotify.com/show/5qaYz2SRxlPUszXZQWNl1U?utm_source=chatgpt.com
For more on Ilan Baruch’s work: https://www.pascalboniface.com/2024/09/11/interview-two-israeli-diplomats-denounce-netanyahus-gaza-policy/
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Ep 153. Is wealth inequality the greatest global danger? U-turns on a U-Turn: Reeve’s Budget, and why is Trump suing the BBC?
The US president has said he plans to sue the BBC, even after getting an apology for a misleading Panorama edit of his 6 January speech. But how could he do that national broadcaster of America’s greatest ally? And will the BBC cave?
To find out, Jason is joined again by returning cohost, Mark Lobel. They discuss the BBC’s next moves and whether Trump’s lawsuit actually has any merit. Plus: they dissect a tumultuous week for Keir Starmer, Rachel Reeve’s budgetary reversals, Wes Streeting’s ‘leadership challenge’ and what this all means for actuality of centrist leadership. And as they look to Order the Disorder, they discuss the issue of wealth inequality as today’s greatest global challenge, and why radical transparency and generosity might be what’s needed to fix it.
To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
Producer: George McDonagh
Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/
Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow
Show Notes Links:
Pls Join the Mega Orderers Club for ad-free listening and early release of the episodes, via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
For more on Mark Lobel visit https://www.mark-lobel.com/
Read Yuval Noah Harari: Only generosity can secure peace between Israelis and Palestinians https://www.ft.com/content/04078017-18b1-4c63-8521-198c69684255
Read Zach Polanski The right can mock my teeth all it wants – it shows the Greens have struck a nerve https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/nov/10/green-party-zack-polanski-struck-nerve-politics
Read Upper East Side Moms Are Melting Down Over Mamdani - New York Magazine https://www.thecut.com/article/moms-of-the-upper-east-side-facebook-meltdown-mamdani.html
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Ep 152. How do we still get people to believe in Democracy?
For a special crossover episode with the Democracy Works podcast, Jenna Spinelle talks with Jason. They discuss the state of democracy around the world and why making America's government more like a European country might not be the solution to our current polarization that some democracy reformers hope it will be. We also contrast the current state of play in the US and UK and speculate as to why Keir Starmer has been such a disappointment and how the UK is not able to provide a model of centre-left governance to the US in the way that Jason might have hoped.
To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
Producer: George McDonagh
Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/
Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow
Show Notes Links:
Join the Mega Orderers Club via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
For more on Democracy works visit: https://democracyworks.simplecast.com/
To listen to Jason on yet another podcast, try his appearance on Practical Stoicism talking about the completely different topic of backgammon and the importance of being disciplined and self aware: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/practical-stoicism/id1603004118?i=1000734643776
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Ep151. Jason loses his city: the disordering pitfalls of Zohran Mamdani’s victory in NYC
Central Park West Apartments for all! Freeze the Rent! Free Palestine! Jason goes on a screed that is sure to bemuse, offend, and enlighten. He showcases the myriad ways in which Mamdani’s leftwing populism is not so dissimilar to Trump’s disordering offerings.
In the wake of Zohran Mamdani’s victory in the New York Mayoral Election, Democrats face a choice. How do they talk about the issues he won on – cost of living, housing, transport – but from a centrist perspective? Or do they even try and double down on the socialism? Because… if Mamdani’s populist hard left politics win out, could they be handing the next presidency to JD Vance?
This week, Jason and Jane discuss the implications of the recent elections in the US, not just in New York City, but across the country. They debate the rise of Zohran Mamdani and how it raises questions profound questions about the soul of America, about nativism, identity politics, and the need for the Democratic Party to learn from centrist candidates to regain voter trust. And as they Order the Disorder, Jane and Jason discuss the growing need for experts in politics, and how populism – whether on the left or right of – isn’t the answer.
To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
Producer: George McDonagh
Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/
Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow
Show Notes Links:
Join the Mega Orderers Club via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
The Fall of New York City in 8 Charts: This is why Mamdani won-- https://www.frontpagemag.com/the-fall-of-new-york-city-in-8-charts
Listen back to Ep3. The Rise of the Neo-Populists https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/NGIxZDgwNGUtNGQ4Ni0xMWVlLWFlMTUtMWYxMWNiYzVkN2Jk
Timecodes
Chapters
00:00 - 01:44: Intro
01:44 - 20:28: The Rise of Zohran Mamdani and the Dilemma for Democrats
20:28 - 37:56: What does this mean for wider US politics?
37:56 - end: Ordering the Disorder
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Ep 150. Why can’t the US justice system hold the powerful to account?
To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
In institutional design, the US justice system is more independent than its European counterparts. Even though the US President selects his Attorney General, a corrupt President can be dealt with not only via impeachment, but in Principal through independent special counsels pursing justice while avoiding potential conflicts of interest. And yet… from Hillary’s emails to Trump’s possible collusion with Russia and promotion of an insurrection, the Special Prosecutor system hasn't worked as it should. And now despite all those checks and balances, we have a weaponized justice, with a more political DOJ under Pam Bondi being used to pursue revenge against Trump’s enemies.
How did we get to here? Why can’t the American system – designed with the most checks and balances -- work to hold power to account?
To find out, Jason is joined this week by Elie Honig, senior legal analyst for CNN and author of When You Come at the King: Inside DOJ's Pursuit of the President, from Nixon to Trump. This episode is brought to you in partnership with the New Books Network. They discuss the legal details of Watergate, Hillary Clinton’s emailgate, the Mueller investigation, and Jan 6. As they order the disorder, Elie and Jason consider whether and how the system can be reformed, and the importance of courage and integrity within the justice system.
Producer: George McDonagh
Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/
Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow
Show Notes Links:
Join the Mega Orderers Club via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
For more on our New Books Network partnership visit https://newbooksnetwork.com/category/up-partners/disorder
Buy When You Come at the King: Inside DOJ's Pursuit of the President, from Nixon to Trump by Elie Honig https://www.amazon.co.uk/When-You-Come-King-President/dp/0063447363
Read Why The Supreme Court Might Strike Down Trumps Tariffs https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/why-the-supreme-court-might-strike-down-trumps-tariffs.html
Read The John Bolton Indictment Is Different https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/the-john-bolton-indictment-is-different/ar-AA1OESRh?apiversion=v2&domshim=1&noservercache=1&noservertelemetry=1&batchservertelemetry=1&renderwebcomponents=1&wcseo=1
Watch Elie Honig on the Lincoln Project https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSEytVs2Er4
Read a review of Elie’s book at https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/elie-honig/when-you-come-at-the-king/
Another take on Elie’s book https://historynerdsunited.com/2025/09/when-you-come-at-the-king-by-elie-honig-book-review/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
Gone are the days of coherent international coordination. Rather than working together to solve pressing crises, many of the world’s most powerful states are actively making those crises worse. The result? We’re living through a novel historical era: The Global Enduring Disorder.
The Disorder podcast, in partnership with RUSI, teases out the key principles that connect seemingly disparate challenges: from Climate Change to Tax Havens, to Unregulated Cyberspace, to the Wars in Ukraine, Syria, and Libya. Jason Pack, Associate Fellow at RUSI, and returning cohosts, discuss with world-leading experts, senior diplomats and cultural icons, the fundamental principles lurking behind today’s global issues.
At the conclusion of each episode, they will proposing inventive, win-win solutions to the globe’s most pressing challenges aka, ‘Ordering the Disorder’.
Website: https://disordershow.com/
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