Ep 150. Why can’t the US justice system hold the powerful to account?
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In institutional design, the US justice system is more independent than its European counterparts. Even though the US President selects his Attorney General, a corrupt President can be dealt with not only via impeachment, but in Principal through independent special counsels pursing justice while avoiding potential conflicts of interest. And yet… from Hillary’s emails to Trump’s possible collusion with Russia and promotion of an insurrection, the Special Prosecutor system hasn't worked as it should. And now despite all those checks and balances, we have a weaponized justice, with a more political DOJ under Pam Bondi being used to pursue revenge against Trump’s enemies.
How did we get to here? Why can’t the American system – designed with the most checks and balances -- work to hold power to account?
To find out, Jason is joined this week by Elie Honig, senior legal analyst for CNN and author of When You Come at the King: Inside DOJ's Pursuit of the President, from Nixon to Trump. This episode is brought to you in partnership with the New Books Network. They discuss the legal details of Watergate, Hillary Clinton’s emailgate, the Mueller investigation, and Jan 6. As they order the disorder, Elie and Jason consider whether and how the system can be reformed, and the importance of courage and integrity within the justice system.
Producer: George McDonagh
Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/
Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow
Show Notes Links:
Join the Mega Orderers Club via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
For more on our New Books Network partnership visit https://newbooksnetwork.com/category/up-partners/disorder
Buy When You Come at the King: Inside DOJ's Pursuit of the President, from Nixon to Trump by Elie Honig https://www.amazon.co.uk/When-You-Come-King-President/dp/0063447363
Read Why The Supreme Court Might Strike Down Trumps Tariffs https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/why-the-supreme-court-might-strike-down-trumps-tariffs.html
Read The John Bolton Indictment Is Different https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/the-john-bolton-indictment-is-different/ar-AA1OESRh?apiversion=v2&domshim=1&noservercache=1&noservertelemetry=1&batchservertelemetry=1&renderwebcomponents=1&wcseo=1
Watch Elie Honig on the Lincoln Project https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSEytVs2Er4
Read a review of Elie’s book at https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/elie-honig/when-you-come-at-the-king/
Another take on Elie’s book https://historynerdsunited.com/2025/09/when-you-come-at-the-king-by-elie-honig-book-review/
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Ep 149. Is an alliance with Israel geostrategically useful to the US? Plus sanctions on Russia and the UN’s Role
To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content (like this week’s special bonus about the UN’s and Jason’s Birthday) and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
In this listener questions episode, Jason and Jane discuss a range of issues from Israel-Gaza, to football hooliganism, to Kaliningrad (the Russian exclave), to the possibility of mega ordering institutions. They start by analysing the strategic importance of an alliance with Israel to the US by dissecting the Realist and Neo-conservative cases. Jane and Jason revisit the controversy of Maccabi Tel Aviv fans being banned from Birmingham by delving into the intersection of football and politics and the difference of fan culture in the US and UK. After the break, Jane and Jason tackle the questions: do sanctions on Russia go far enough? Could there be sanctions against the Kaliningrad exclave? Are we closer to nuclear war with Russia since the drone strikes? Why are we normalising Trump’s White House renovations? And as they Order the Disorder: we return as always to the need for a mega ordering club of democracies, how we decide on a common set of European values, and if the Ave Europe charity is on the right track.
Producer: George McDonagh
Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/
Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow
Show Notes Links:
Join the Mega Orderers Club via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
Read the Ave Europa Charter: https://ave-europa.eu/charter/
Mearsheimer on ‘The Israel Lobby's Awesome Power’ https://mearsheimer.substack.com/p/the-israel-lobbys-awesome-power
And push back against his thoughts: https://www.israelfactcheck.com/debunking-mearsheimer-walt-s-theories-on-israel-influence
Some background on Kaliningrad: https://besacenter.org/kaliningrad-russias-exclave-in-europe/
Other perspectives on the rights of football fans and Maccabi hooliganism: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/oct/21/police-intelligence-on-extreme-maccabi-fans-with-history-of-violence-led-to-villa-park-ban
Fighting for the rights of football fans
How a Cambridge researcher fought for the rights of football fans and won: https://www.cam.ac.uk/stories/footballact2012
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Ep 148. Is there a path to lasting peace in Palestine and Israel?
To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
As Trump parades across the Middle East collecting adulation for his ‘eternal peace’ deal, Jane and Jason break down the realities and explain that what was achieved was merely a hostage release, prisoner swap, and ceasefire. With Phase 2 looming and infighting already starting in Gaza, they look at the role of the various international actors (like Qatar, Egypt, UK, US) in possibly creating technocratic governance of Gaza. Plus: Is now the time for an Iran peace deal and as the UN Charter turns 80, what might the future of the organisation be?
Finally, as they Order the Disorder, they discuss the need for progressive politicians to become better communicators.
Producer: George McDonagh
Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/
Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow
Show Notes Links:
Join the Mega Orderers Club via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
For an explainer on Iran latest, read Gaza Ceasefire Could Give Iran Another Chance at Negotiations with the US - https://www.stimson.org/2025/gaza-ceasefire-could-give-iran-another-chance-at-negotiations-with-the-us/
Watch Jane discussing what’s next for Middle East - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alTViSc3FJk
Read UN says countries are willing to help fund Gaza's $70 bln reconstruction https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-states-willing-fund-gazas-70-bln-rebuild-2025-10-14/
Read Why Was the President of FIFA at the Gaza Summit? https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/14/world/middleeast/gianni-infantino-fifa-trump.html
Read What Gaza has been like since the ceasefire in Vox - https://apple.news/Ao4Xzg8yKT5-aVo-nm8769A
Read BBC Expert Says The Israel-Palestine Conflict 'Will Continue' Despite Trump's Peace Plan - https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/bbc-expert-says-the-israel-palestine-conflict-will-continue-despite-trumps-peace-plan_uk_68eb5d49e4b0abf20b6b0850?ncid=APPLENEWS00001
Watch Syrian President Ahmed al-Sharaa interview with CBC https://share.google/Eik7y67VmISQHiegN
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Ep 147. From Gaza ceasefire and Hostage release and to Post-War State Building? With Sam Bahour (Commemorating October 7th Part 2)
To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
To discuss from a Palestinian perspective the fallout of October 7th, two years of the Gaza War, and the suffering of the Palestinians from occupation, displacement, cantonization, and bombardments, Jason is joined by Sam Bahour, a Palestinian-American entrepreneur based in Ramallah. There is much said in this episode that Jason does not agree with but rather than constantly arguing with the guest, Jason is committed to presenting different points of view and tried to err on the side of letting Sam speak so the listener can make up their own mind, especially when contrasting the narrative with the episode with Phil Rosenberg from last week.
Sam and Jason discuss the implications of the recently announced and implemented Trump’s ‘Eternal Peace’ which is really just a Gaza ceasefire in exchange for Israeli hostage releases, the realities of life in the West Bank under Israeli occupation, the economic challenges of reconstruction of Gaza and standing up Palestinian institutions, and the role of the international community states in those state building and reconstruction efforts. Jason and Sam disagree agreeably about the role of the international community and technocratic governments in Palestine and beyond, while Bahour emphasizes the need for Palestinian self-determination and leadership.
And as Sam Orders the Disorder, he highlights how changing dynamics in U.S. support for Israel and Palestine could result in a different dynamic in the Middle East.
Producer: George McDonagh
Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/
Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow
Show Notes Links:
Join the Mega Orderers Club via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
For more of Sam’s writing visit https://epalestine.ps/sambahour/
To Check out our previous episode Commemorating October 7th Part 1: Phil Rosenberg, President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews click here: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ep-146-commemorating-october-7th-part-1-phil-rosenberg/id1706818264?i=1000730501569
Read Jason's piece Internationalize the Solution for Gaza and Iran https://natoandtheged.substack.com/p/internationalize-the-solution-for
Read Gazans Are Finished With Hamas https://www.wsj.com/opinion/gazans-are-finished-with-hamas-commander-popular-forces-5d9a6345
Israel is backing a militia known for looting aid in Gaza https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/06/09/israel-is-backing-a-militia-known-for-looting-aid-in-gaza_6742148_4.html
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Ep 146. Commemorating October 7th Part 1: Phil Rosenberg, President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews
To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10
This timely episode was recorded before the horrors of the Manchester Yom Kippur Synagogue terrorist attack of October 2nd and the potential optimism of the Trump deal to end the Gaza War which is currently in limbo. This episode deals extensively with issues of antisemitism, humanitarian suffering in Gaza, and the potentialities of Middle East peace. As we mark 2 years since the horrific October 7th massacre in Israel -- and the disastrous regional wars and tragic humanitarian crisis in Gaza that have ensued in its wake-- we here at Disorder are producing a two-episode series dealing with the legacy of that fateful day: one from a British-Jewish perspective and one from a Palestinian-American perspective.
To start with, we’re joined by Phil Rosenberg, President of The Board of Deputies of British Jews. Phil is the highest-ranking communal official representing the Jewish community to the UK government and media. Jason and Phil discuss the ongoing ramifications of the attacks on Jewish life in the UK, the rise of global antisemitism, and the role played by misinformation and conspiracy theories in manipulating public perception of Jews. Plus: is the UK's position on the ongoing Israel-Hamas conflict a help or a hinderance? And did the mass of Western states recognising a Palestinian state actually move the needle towards a two-state solution or has it just further entrenched the conflict?
Join us next week to hear our conversation with Sam Bahour, who will give the perspective from Ramallah.
Producer: George McDonagh
Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/
Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow
Show Notes Links:
Join the Mega Orderers Club via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10
Read a report from Phil’s organisation on the Response to 7th October – how the UK Jewish community was impacted.
https://www.jpr.org.uk/reports/year-after-october-7-british-jewish-views-israel-antisemitism-and-jewish-life
For more on Trump’s Gaza peace initiative: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/05/world/middleeast/trump-netanyahu-gaza-deal.html
For more on The Board of Deputies of British Jews work to tackle antisemitism visit https://bod.org.uk/bod-news/commission-on-antisemitism/
For a legal and structural argument for why recognition of a Palestinian State will not help make piece listen to this Call Me Back episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/call-me-back-with-dan-senor/id1539292794?i=1000727804529
Listen to our previous episode with Joseph Uscinski on Conspiracy Theories and their hidden logic: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2nvlI3hR1VFyMbgKaZddyi
Listen to our previous episode on extremism and Conspiracy Theories with Julia Ebner: https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/MjJkNjlmZDItMDExZi0xMWYwLTg4MWUtZGZjZDhiYzFhNTEz
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To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/
Gone are the days of coherent international coordination. Rather than working together to solve pressing crises, many of the world’s most powerful states are actively making those crises worse. The result? We’re living through a novel historical era: The Global Enduring Disorder.
The Disorder podcast, in partnership with RUSI, teases out the key principles that connect seemingly disparate challenges: from Climate Change to Tax Havens, to Unregulated Cyberspace, to the Wars in Ukraine, Syria, and Libya. Jason Pack, Associate Fellow at RUSI, and returning cohosts, discuss with world-leading experts, senior diplomats and cultural icons, the fundamental principles lurking behind today’s global issues.
At the conclusion of each episode, they will proposing inventive, win-win solutions to the globe’s most pressing challenges aka, ‘Ordering the Disorder’.
Website: https://disordershow.com/
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