Catalyst with Shayle Kann

You don’t have to look far to see the vitriol and backlash ignited by the rapid expansion of hyperscaler data centers. While critics and activists tend to focus their ire on resource consumption and residents’ electricity bills, the reality of data center economics is far more complex.

In this episode of Catalyst, host Shayle Kann sits down with Andy Lubershane, head of research at Energy Impact Partners, to unpack the nuances. They crunch the numbers behind utility rate structures, consider the "denominator effect" that can lower customers’ rates, and dig into the supply chain crunches pushing global power system costs higher.

Shayle and Andy discuss:

- Why a new data center can reduce utility rates for locals while contributing to rising costs elsewhere

- How data centers impact utility tariff rates

- Separating public perception of data centers from the reality of the grid

- How soaring demand for transformers, switchgear, conductors, gas turbines, and labor is driving systemic cost increases across the power sector

- Strategies to mitigate rising global grid costs, from load flexibility and distributed energy resources (DERs) to energy efficiency hardware

- Catalyst: What comes after the data center backlash?

- Catalyst: Enter the electric supercycle

- Catalyst: Can AI revolutionize grid operations?

- Catalyst: Inside the AI power wars

- Open Circuit: As midterms approach, electricity bills are on the ballot

- Open Circuit: Data centers have a Texas-sized energy problem

- Latitude Media: The great home battery financing experiment

Credits: Hosted by Shayle Kann. Produced and edited by Max Savage Levenson. Original music and engineering by Sean Marquand. Stephen Lacey is our executive editor.

Catalyst is brought to you by EnergyHub. Peak season puts every grid to the test — and the utilities that pass are the ones that built flexible capacity before they needed it. EnergyHub works with more than 170 utilities to coordinate 2.5 million devices and 3.4 gigawatts of dispatchable flexibility through a single platform designed to perform when it counts most. See what that looks like at https://www.energyhub.com/

Catalyst is brought to you by Bloom Energy. Bloom Energy fuel cells deliver affordable, ultra-reliable onsite power for hospitals, utilities, and data centers – at speed and at scale. Learn more by visiting https://www.bloomenergy.com

This episode of Catalyst is brought to you by ENGIE, the smarter energy supplier. ENGIE doesn't just provide the power to run your business — they supply the energy to move it forward, with reliable, flexible solutions built for what's next. Learn more at https://www.engieresources.com

In their early days, data centers were largely welcomed by communities who saw their arrival as an economic boost. Today as concerns around noise levels, power prices, water use, and AI grow, they face fierce opposition.

In this episode, Shayle speaks to Brian Janous, co-founder and chief commercial officer of Cloverleaf Infrastructure. Together, they unpack the data center backlash and explore how the industry can approach the problem differently.

Shayle and Brian dive into specifics like:

- Communities’ shift from “red carpets to pitchforks” on data center development

- How misleading information about data center energy and water usage has led to the AI sector losing the public relations battle

- Distinctions between data centers’ micro-level benefits and macro-level price inflation on power grids

- The potential, and pitfalls, of "bring-your-own-capacity" and behind-the-meter generation

- The viability of taking data centers off-grid, off-land, or off-planet

- The emerging market for distributed edge compute facilities

Resources:

- Catalyst: When to colocate data centers with generation

- Catalyst: Explaining the ‘Watt-Bit Spread’

- Open Circuit: The off-grid data center fantasy

- Open Circuit: Utilities are in the crosshairs of the data center backlash

- Latitude Media: In Indiana, an anatomy of data center opposition

Credits: Hosted by Shayle Kann. Produced and edited by Max Savage Levenson. Original music and engineering by Sean Marquand. Stephen Lacey is our executive editor.

Catalyst is brought to you by EnergyHub. Peak season puts every grid to the test — and the utilities that pass are the ones that built flexible capacity before they needed it. EnergyHub works with more than 170 utilities to coordinate 2.5 million devices and 3.4 gigawatts of dispatchable flexibility through a single platform designed to perform when it counts most. See what that looks like at https://www.energyhub.com/

Catalyst is brought to you by Bloom Energy. Bloom Energy fuel cells deliver affordable, ultra-reliable onsite power for hospitals, utilities, and data centers – at speed and at scale. Learn more by visiting BloomEnergy.com.

This episode of Catalyst is brought to you by ENGIE, the smarter energy supplier. ENGIE doesn't just provide the power to run your business — they supply the energy to move it forward, with reliable, flexible solutions built for what's next. Learn more at engieresources.com.

Diesel generators remain ubiquitous because they offer an unusually powerful combination of low cost, high energy density, long-duration storage, and reliable off-grid power. But their pollution, noise, maintenance requirements, permitting challenges, and growing footprint are becoming increasingly problematic as data centers drive demand for backup generation.

In this episode of Catalyst, Shayle Kann talks with Richard Wang, co-founder and CEO of Voya Energy, about the company's effort to replace diesel generators with generators powered by aluminum.

Richard explains why diesel has been so difficult to displace, why natural gas and batteries fall short for some backup applications, and how Voya's electrochemical generator uses aluminum pellets and air to produce electricity. Unlike combustion-based generators, the system is designed to operate without air emissions, while offering high energy density, quiet operation, rapid startup, and long-duration capabilities.

The conversation also explores aluminum's potential as a globally transportable energy carrier and why low-grade scrap aluminum could provide Voya's initial fuel supply.

Richard and Shayle discuss:

The global diesel generator market and why diesel remains dominant

Why natural gas generators and batteries haven't displaced diesel

Aluminum as a high-energy-density fuel

How Voya Energy's electrochemical aluminum generator works

Voya vs. diesel on cost, footprint, power quality, and runtime

Using Voya generators as grid assets and battery alternatives


Why metal fuels are becoming viable now

Using low-grade scrap aluminum as fuel and the long-term vision for recyclable aluminum energy storage

Credits: Hosted by Shayle Kann. Produced and edited by John Sheehan. Original music and engineering by Sean Marquand. Stephen Lacey is our executive editor.

This episode of Catalyst is brought to you by ENGIE, the smarter energy supplier. ENGIE doesn't just provide the power to run your business — they supply the energy to move it forward, with reliable, flexible solutions built for what's next. Learn more at engieresources.com.

Catalyst is brought to you by EnergyHub. Peak season puts every grid to the test — and the utilities that pass are the ones that built flexible capacity before they needed it. EnergyHub works with more than 170 utilities to coordinate 2.5 million devices and 3.4 gigawatts of dispatchable flexibility through a single platform designed to perform when it counts most. See what that looks like at EnergyHub.com.

Catalyst is brought to you by Bloom Energy. Bloom Energy fuel cells deliver affordable, ultra-reliable onsite power for hospitals, utilities, and data centers – at speed and at scale. Learn more by visiting BloomEnergy.com.

Everyone loves to talk about the “broken grid.” But if you look inside a utility’s planning and operations functions, a different picture emerges: infrastructure that is remarkably reliable, built and run by engineers solving impossibly complex problems with often outdated tools.

In this episode, Shayle Kann sits down with Josh Wong, CEO and founder of ThinkLabs AI, a company building physics-informed AI for utility planning and operations. They break down how utility studies get built today, the data cleanup headaches, the silos between teams, and the “worst case” mentality that drives an overbuild of infrastructure.

Shayle and Josh discuss:

Why utility planning is split into silos across transmission, distribution, and DER planning.

The gap between studies that identify grid problems and the work of actually solving them.

What “physics-informed AI” actually means.

The shift from AI that identifies problems to AI that actually solves them.

The disconnect between utility planning and real-time operations.

Should data center microgrids be treated as micro utilities?

Resources:

Latitude Media: GE spinout ThinkLabs has a new copilot offering for the grid

Latitude Media: Do microgrids make sense for data centers?

Latitude Media: The case against relying on behind-the-meter power for data centers

Latitude Media: Unpacking DOE's proposal to transform data center interconnection

Credits: Hosted by Shayle Kann. Produced and edited by Max Savage Levenson. Original music and engineering by Sean Marquand. Stephen Lacey is our executive editor.

This episode of Catalyst is brought to you by ENGIE, the smarter energy supplier. ENGIE doesn't just provide the power to run your business — they supply the energy to move it forward, with reliable, flexible solutions built for what's next. Learn more at engieresources.com.

Catalyst is brought to you by EnergyHub. Peak season puts every grid to the test — and the utilities that pass are the ones that built flexible capacity before they needed it. EnergyHub works with more than 170 utilities to coordinate 2.5 million devices and 3.4 gigawatts of dispatchable flexibility through a single platform designed to perform when it counts most. See what that looks like at EnergyHub.com.

Catalyst is brought to you by Bloom Energy. Bloom Energy fuel cells deliver affordable, ultra-reliable onsite power for hospitals, utilities, and data centers – at speed and at scale. Learn more by visiting BloomEnergy.com.

A decade ago, DERs were hot. The hype was that things like batteries, smart devices, and other distributed energy technologies would offset the need for expanding traditional grid infrastructure.

But DERs never took off, at least not at the scale that many hoped for. They had high price tags and short track records compared to the existing substations, transmission lines, and generation options that utilities were familiar with. In short, the market didn’t need them yet.

Fast forward 10 years, and things have changed. Load growth is increasing while major grid bottlenecks — like in transmission, interconnection, and supply chains — may be opening up a new opportunity.

So is the time finally right for DERs? In this episode, Shayle talks to his colleague Andy Lubershane, partner and head of research at Energy Impact Partners. Last week, Andy published a blog post making the case that DERs were a good idea that was just too early, but the market is ready now. Original episode date: 9/18/2025.

Shayle and Andy cover topics like:

- What held DERs back a decade ago

- Why now is different, including falling system costs and growing grid bottlenecks

- The difference between demand response and virtual power plants

- The potential hurdles to scale, like supply chain bottlenecks, foreign entity of concern regulations, and fire codes

Resources:

Latitude Media: Can distributed energy answer AI’s power problem?

Open Circuit: The grid flexibility solutions staring us in the face

Catalyst: Making DERs work for load growth

Credits: Hosted by Shayle Kann. Produced and edited by Daniel Woldorff. Original music and engineering by Sean Marquand. Stephen Lacey is our executive editor.

This episode of Catalyst is brought to you by ENGIE, the smarter energy supplier. ENGIE doesn't just provide the power to run your business — they supply the energy to move it forward, with reliable, flexible solutions built for what's next. Learn more at engieresources.com.

Catalyst is brought to you by EnergyHub. Peak season puts every grid to the test — and the utilities that pass are the ones that built flexible capacity before they needed it. EnergyHub works with more than 170 utilities to coordinate 2.5 million devices and 3.4 gigawatts of dispatchable flexibility through a single platform designed to perform when it counts most. See what that looks like at EnergyHub.com.

Catalyst is brought to you by Bloom Energy. Bloom Energy fuel cells deliver affordable, ultra-reliable onsite power for hospitals, utilities, and data centers – at speed and at scale. Learn more by visiting BloomEnergy.com.