The Peel with Turner Novak

• Inside Intercom’s AI Turnaround, Why Software Companies Must Train Their Own Models | Eoghan McCabe, Co-founder and CEO

  Eoghan McCabe is the Co-founder and CEO of Intercom, building Fin.ai, the AI customer service company.This was an extremely candid, two hour conversation going inside every detail of how Intercom was the first late stage software company to successfully re-architect itself to be AI-native.Intercom just announced they’ve built their own customer service-focused AI models, and Eoghan explains why most software companies will have to do the same.We also talk through the lessons he learned coming back to run Intercom in 2022 after stepping back in 2020, why many AI companies have strong negative gross margins despite the narrative, how Intercom designed AI’s first outcome-based pricing model, the challenges of buying AI software today, the importance of brand when building new products, and we get in the wayback machine, talking through the pain raising Intercom’s initial million dollar Seed round, and how venture capital has changed since then.Thank you to Eoghan’s Co-founder Des Traynor for helping me brainstorm topics for the conversation.Special thanks to Ramp for supporting this episode. It's the corporate card and expense management platform used by over 40,000 companies, like Shopify, CBRE and Stripe. Time is money. Save both with Ramp. Get $250 for signing-up here: https://ramp.com/ThePeelTimestamps:(4:18) We’re at peak SaaS(9:11) Inside early days of Intercom’s turnaround(16:43) AI will beat humans at everything(21:17) Making trade-offs building AI products(24:25) Why Intercom trained their own AI models(28:33) Lessons from returning as CEO(34:19) Overcoming initial AI skepticism in 2022(40:02) Creating AI’s first outcome-based pricing(45:15) Intercom’s best-in-class gross margins(49:25) Why its so hard to buy AI software today(51:28) Unpacking AI’s negative gross margins(58:12) Being perfectly positioned for AI(1:09:47) Why AI products need their own brand(1:16:13) Founder CEOs vs Manager CEOs in AI(1:21:29) AI startup opportunities(1:24:57) Lessons running a team in Dublin and SF(1:28:25) How media has changed over time(1:37:32) Raising Intercom’s first $1 million Seed round(1:43:53) Why there are so many VC’s(1:47:38) Advice for investorsReferencedIntercom: https://www.intercom.com/Fin: https://fin.ai/Intercom Careers: https://www.intercom.com/careersEoghan’s website: https://eoghanmccabe.comIntercom’s first pitch deck: https://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/intercompitchdeckpdf/253317574Follow EoghanTwitter: https://x.com/eoghanLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eoghanmccabeFollow TurnerTwitter: https://twitter.com/TurnerNovakLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnernovakSubscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week: https://www.thespl.it/

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• How To Generate Alpha in Venture Capital | Albert Azout, Level Ventures

  Albert Azout is the Co-founder and Managing Partner of Level Ventures, combining first-principles thinking with state-of-the-art data science to back and build top seed-stage firms and their breakout companies.Venture investing is hard, and this conversation covers all their research unpacking exactly how to generate alpha.We also talk about how Level picks and backs emerging venture managers to invest in, and Albert gives a demo of the custom internal software they’ve built.Thank you to Jake Kupperman, Sasha Kaletsky, Nathan Benaich, Amanda Robson, and Dave Fontenot for helping brainstorm topics for the conversation. Special thanks to Ramp for supporting this episode. It's the corporate card and expense management platform used by over 40,000 companies, like Shopify, CBRE and Stripe. Time is money. Save both with Ramp. Get $250 for signing-up here: https://ramp.com/ThePeelTry Hanover Park - the modern, AI-native fund admin https://www.hanoverpark.com/TurnerTimestamps:(5:01) Top 3 forms of alpha in VC(10:11) Other ways to generate alpha(12:47) Avoiding false positives(17:11) Optimal fund size and portfolio construction(22:25) The role of Luck(23:55) Spin-out vs outsider funds(25:43) Level’s backchannel reference process(29:29) Finding alpha in Criticality Investing(34:45) Why capital flows drive all returns(43:53) Early, consensus investing has the most alpha(48:46) Networks are more persistent than performance(52:03) The strongest and weakest networks(58:41) Demo of Level’s internal software(1:04:48) Building a Fund of Funds around their data(1:10:01) Ideal LP GP relationship(1:12:39) Benchmarks are relative(1:15:39) VC funds using AI(1:17:43) How venture will change in the next 10 yearsReferencedLevel Ventures: https://levelvc.com/Level’s Research Papers: https://levelvc.com/research/Follow AlbertLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/albertazout/Newsletter: https://albertazout.substack.com/ Follow TurnerTwitter: https://twitter.com/TurnerNovakLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnernovakSubscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week: https://www.thespl.it/

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• The Ocean: Earth’s $2.5 Trillion Last Frontier | Will O’Brien, Co-founder of Ulysses

  Will O’Brien is the Co-founder of Ulysses, building autonomous, low cost robots for the ocean.Will considers the ocean humanity’s next great frontier. It makes up over $2.5 trillion of economic activity, considering things like fishing, aquaculture, shipping, mining, communications infrastructure, and defense. Yet we know more about the surface of the moon’s of Saturn than we do the bottom of our own ocean.We talk about Ulysses first product, restoring plant life in the ocean, their modular autonomous underwater robotics platform, advice for anyone selling to governments, crazy businesses that could eventually evolve in the ocean, and why the way we finance startups needs to change.Will also loves conspiracy theories, and we talk about some of our favorites, and why he thinks people who believe them could make good startup founders.Thank you to Will’s brother’s Harry and Jacob O’Brien, and to upcoming guest of the show Eoghan McCabe for helping brainstorm topics for Will.Special thanks to Ramp for supporting this episode. It's the corporate card and expense management platform used by over 40,000 companies, like Shopify, CBRE and Stripe. Time is money. Save both with Ramp. Get $250 for signing-up here: https://ramp.com/ThePeelTimestamps:(4:03) Peace offering of Dubai Chocolate(5:30) Modern internet theory(7:40) The ocean is the last frontier(11:53) Ulysses: read/write layer of the ocean(13:35) The $2.5 trillion ocean economy(15:14) Current ocean unit economics(18:50) Starting with seagrass ecosystem restoration(24:13) Modular, underwater autonomous robots(27:31) Starting Ulysses with a group chat(29:51) Raising a Seed from Lowercarbon with no network off a cold calendar invite(32:24) Economic use cases for ocean robotics(36:07) Spiritual energy from the ocean(42:36) First Ramp podcast ad in Irish(43:21) Floating cities, sub tours, deep sea mining, iron fertilization(51:47) $10+ billion in shipwrecked treasure(53:18 Atlantis is real(59:46) Craziest alien conspiracy theories(1:01:28) Sinking the titanic to create the Fed(1:04:19) Conspiracy theory believers are good founders(1:07:55) How to sell to the government(1:13:28) Writing a letter to an Irish billionaire(1:16:00) Finding meaning after living with Monks in Nepal(1:27:10) Why financial innovation precludes economic dominance(1:44:01) The SPV peddler business model(1:46:35) Should we bring back SPAC’s?ReferencedUlysses: https://www.ulysses.eco/Careers at Ulysses: https://www.ulysses.eco/jobsThe Richat Structure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richat_StructureJesse Michael’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@JesseMichelsBrad Jacobs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Jacobs_(businessman)Follow WillTwitter: https://x.com/willobriLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/will0brienFollow TurnerTwitter: https://twitter.com/TurnerNovakLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnernovakSubscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week: https://www.thespl.it/

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• How to Build a Content Strategy + CPG Brand Lessons | Isaac Medeiros (Mini Katana, Kanpai Foods)

  Isaac Medeiros is the Founder of Mini Katana and Kanpai Foods.Isaac’s content gets over 1 billion views per month. Our conversation gets into content strategy from a high level down to tactical decisions, differences between the TikTok and YouTube algorithms, and how AI will impact content creation.We also get into Isaac’s origin story building consumer brands, why TikTok made food an interesting category for new products, how to get a product into retail stores, and why you shouldn’t sell into retail.Isaac also shares how tariff’s impacted his company. They became unprofitable overnight, and he had to move his entire supply chain from the US to Mexico in 60 days.Thank you to Sean Frank @ Ridge and Kevin Espiritu @ Epic Gardening for their help brainstorming topics for Isaac.Special thanks to Ramp for supporting this episode. It's the corporate card and expense management platform used by over 40,000 companies, like Shopify, CBRE and Stripe. Time is money. Save both with Ramp. Get $250 for signing-up here.Timestamps:(3:46) 165 million views in two days(5:15) Followers don’t matter, build a binge bank(11:21) How to monetize an audience(14:36) Identify outliers for content ideas(17:13) Should founders make their own content?(19:34) Starting Mini Katana(23:39) $10m revenue in two years w/ $0 CAC(25:56) Difference between TikTok and YouTube algorithms(29:38) When to experiment with a second platform(32:20) Starting Kanpai, a freeze-dried candy company(36:54) Why freeze-dried candy wasn’t popular(38:22) Why you shouldn’t sell in retail(41:12) Why you should sell in retail(47:05) Downsides of selling to large retailers(49:52) Should CPG brands raise money?(57:59) Moving manufacturing from US to Mexico in 60 days due to tariffs(1:04:20) Why you don’t want to be first in a category(1:08:06) Other CPG creators Isaac follows(1:09:15) Elon Musk, Charlie Munger, Mark Cuban(1:11:55) Labubu’sReferencedMini KatanaKanpai FoodsPrevious episode with Kevin EspirituPrevious episode with Sean FrankPeachy BabiesThe Marshmellow CoFollow IsaacTwitterLinkedInFollow TurnerTwitter: LinkedIn: Subscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week.

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• The Past, Present, and Future of AI, Robotics, Venture Capital, Crypto | Why Deep Tech Startups Mess up Value Capture | Michael Dempsey, Managing Partner, Compound

  Michael Dempsey is the Managing Partner at Compound, a thesis-driven, research-centric investment firm.We spent two hours talking through the past, present, and future of a bunch of topics in technology and investing.Michael started investing in AI in 2016. He was the first investor in now-unicorns Runway and Wayve. But he hasn’t done much AI investing over the past few years. We talk about why, how AI will intersect with robotics, the future of things like crypto and synthetic biology, and why so many deep tech companies mess up economic value capture.We also talk about what it means to be a thesis-driven venture firm, Compound’s research process and how to replicate it, what private and public market investors can learn from each other, advice for anyone starting in venture today, how to build a brand in VC, and why venture firms don’t compound and actually decay over time.Thank you to Kevin Kwok, Andy Weissman, Cristóbal Valenzuela, Blake Robbins, and Smac at Compound for their help brainstorming topics for this.Special thanks to Ramp for supporting this episode. It's the corporate card and expense management platform used by over 40,000 companies, like Shopify, CBRE and Stripe. Time is money. Save both with Ramp. Get $250 for signing-up here.Timestamps:(4:09) Leading Runway’s Seed in 2018(10:15) Short-term ARR vs long-term sustainability(16:20) Compound, a research-centric investment firm(18:41) Investing in bio, crypto, real-world AI, and healthcare(23:58) VC firms do not compound, they decay over time(29:27) How to build a research-focused investment firm(41:30) Current state of venture slop(45:43) Building a brand as a VC firm(52:31) Investing in Wayve in 2016(58:53) Why deep tech companies screw up economic value capture(1:04:57) How to approach massive funding rounds(1:08:36) Should VCs “play the game on the field”?(1:15:33) Compound is a forecasting firm(1:21:37) Advice for young people getting into VC(1:26:48) Public market investors underappreciate narratives(1:31:20) Michael’s crypto thesis + real use cases(1:40:07) Why crypto hasn’t seen mass adoption yet(1:49:00) Humanoid robots won’t work(1:54:42) Should you make a hyped launch video?ReferencedCompound RunwayWayveMichael’s BlogFollow MicahelTwitterLinkedInFollow TurnerTwitterLinkedInSubscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week.

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